Are you able to elaborate on those key metrics and where this competition can potentially get growth and continue that momentum?

Yeah, mate, no problem.

And thanks for doing my job, reading out my quote.

That was good of you.

my comms guys will be happy that we got those key messages across because I probably would have missed them.

So, mate, yeah, I mean, we look in three key areas.

You know, one's the shape of our game.

Have you put any further thought into the digital offering of Super Rugby? Is it serving its fan base as well as it could? Are there innovations that you think need to be made to make sure that Super Rugby's living well and truly in the modern era?

Yeah

... um, in the game.

And, and those private investors but, you know, pre- predominantly in New Zealand, um, you know, are, are, are wonderful supporters of rugby, won- wonderful supporters of Super Rugby Pacific and their clubs and, and they're just looking, um, to continue the growth.

They want, um, they want to see, generate a return on their investment.

They, they want to see their clubs increase in, in value.

Um, and they wanna see, you know, more resources that go into the middle so, so that we can all work together to continue to do that.

So, you know, they, they're, they're rightfully, uh, having those conversations with, with the unions, the owners of the competition.

Mm

Are you able just to, uh, give our listeners a bit of a, a, a snapshot of what that's gonna look like?

Yeah.

So, um, we've opted to stay, uh, with a three-week, six-team finals series.

Um, but instead of our lucky loser concept that we've been running the last two years, if you finish one and two, you will earn the right to a week off, go straight through to a semifinal, and, and you will host a semifinal.

Um, so in week one of the finals, um, three and, teams three and teams four will host an elimination final knockout, uh, verse, uh, five and six.

Um, so yeah, so every finals match is, is a knockout, no second chances, everything on the line, and, um, and that, that'll just create great intrigue in, in the, in the, in the run home into the finals and then those matches themselves.

And it also means that we will have four different hosts.

Why should teams who finish in the bottom half of the ladder make the playoffs?

Are you able just to, uh, give our listeners a bit of a, a, a snapshot of what that's gonna look like?

Yeah, so, um, we've opted to stay, uh, with a three-week, six-team final series.

Um, but instead of our lucky loser concept that we've been running the last two years, if you finish one and two, you will earn the right to a week off, go straight through to a semifinal and, and you will host a semifinal.

Um, so in week one of the finals, um, three and teams three and teams four will host an elimination final knockout, uh, verse, uh, five and six.

Um, so yeah, so every finals match is, is a knockout, no second chances, everything on the line.

And, um, and that, that'll just create great intrigue in, in the, in the, in the run home into the finals, and then those matches themselves.

And it also means that we will have four different hosts.

Why should teams who finish in the bottom half of the ladder make the playoffs?

I mean, let's be honest, it's gonna be a bit of a battle for the Chiefs, isn't it?

Well, I don't know.

Um, they're a great team.

Um, as you know, they've been in the final three years in a row.

They've got a, they've got a point to prove, and they broke a big hoodoo in getting over the, over the Crusaders.

So I'm sure they'll be very confident.

They're a great team.

Like, can you, can you do a Cameron George and sort of crack a beer on the sideline? Or do you need to be serious the whole way through and stay sober?

Is there a point at which you have to commit to a 10-team comp for the reasons of draw, ground availability, that sort of thing? Is there a point in the calendar where you have to say, OK, we're going to go with 10 for 2027? Yes,

there is.

I mean, I think, you know, we've released draws in the past as late as December.

I don't want to do that.

And last year...

We released it in August.

So, you know, under our management, we want to be bringing that draw forward.

Sorry, Jack.

Is there a point at which you, you have to commit to a 10-team comp for, for the reasons of draw, ground availability, that sort of thing? Is there a, is there a point in the calendar where you have to say, "Okay, we're gonna go with 10 for 2027?"

Um, y-yes there is.

Uh, I mean, I think, you know, uh, we've, we've released draws in the past a-as late as December.

I, I don't wanna do that.

And last year, you know, w-we released it in August.

Um, so, you know, m-under, under our management, you know, we wanna be bringing that draw forward.

We want-- We know it assists everyone in planning.

Would it move? Are you keen to go back to Christchurch? It's about four questions in one, sorry, Jack.

It's a, just a different, um, you know, just a different life experience for them.

Yeah, I mean, I think, you know, one of the key drivers of engagement in any competition is, is that jeopardy.

Um, and you know, we need to, um, to look at how we, how we promote and create that jeopardy.

And you're right, I mean, n- not only Australia versus New Zealand, you know.

The, the distribution of talent even within New Zealand, um, you know, is, is not, um, is not equalized.

Um, you know, the Highlanders have battled for many, many years, uh, i- in that space.

So, um, yeah, I mean, I've, I've been, I've been, you know, public that, you know, I think we should be investigating things like that to drive more jeopardy in the competition.

How much input does the overall governing body of, um, Pacifica Super Rugby have in regards to working with the franchises to improve in those areas and making sure that you are consistent with the message and that everybody's on the same page?

It's a, just a different, um, you know, just a different life experience for them.

Yeah, I mean, I think, you know, one of the key drivers of engagement in any competition is, is that jeopardy.

Um, and you know, we need to, um, to look at how we, how we promote and create that jeopardy.

And you're right, I mean, n- not only Australia versus New Zealand, you know.

The, the distribution of talent even within New Zealand, um, you know, is, is not, um, is not equalized.

Um, you know, the Highlanders have battled for many, many years, uh, i- in that space.

So, um, yeah, I mean, I've, I've been, I've been, you know, public that, you know, I think we should be investigating things like that to drive more jeopardy in the competition.

How much input does the overall governing body of, um, Pacifica Super Rugby have in regards to working with the franchises to improve in those areas and making sure that you are consistent with the message and that everybody's on the same page?

... is just, uh, w- exactly what the game needed at the right time.

Yeah.

I mean, the stadium's a, a massive boost, uh, down there and, um, yeah, great to see, um, the Crusaders selling out, what, four home games in a row now, and that last, what their qualifying final tomorrow in 20 minutes.

Um, it's a great experience and, um, you know, that combined with the, with what the guys are doing to bring it to life, like it's, it's great that they've got all the tools down there now, sound and lighting and all of that.

But, you know, they're, they're throwing everything at it, as are the Chiefs.

You know, I was, I was down at Hamilton on last Saturday night and they had 20,000 down there and it was just a, you know, such a great, great night out.

I took a couple of mates from Aus over and, uh, uh, they just had a ball.

Mate, they've come good

So what do we put this down to in Christchurch? Is this just the novelty of having this new stadium, do you think?

Oh, definitely a major factor for sure.

I mean, I think Cantabrians have been suffering out in the cold at Crusaders games at Apollo for many years and Now they've just got such a different experience.

It's a completely different experience down there being so close to the city.

People can go and have a complete evening, go and have a great meal down by Riverside, walk to the game, have an unbelievable experience.

But also put down to the growth that we're seeing in our crowds across the whole competition.

This is the third year in a row that we're going to host some really pleasing crowd attendance growth numbers.

Now, have we ended up, though, with the situation that we kind of want to avoid, which is that we have a predictable outcome most likely for the next round, which will be four New Zealand teams?

So what do we put this down to in Christchurch? Is this just the novelty of having this new stadium, do you think?

Oh, definitely a major factor, for sure.

I mean, I think Cantabrians have been suffering out in the cold at Crusaders games at Apollo for many years, and Now they've just got such a different experience.

It's a completely different experience down there being so close to the city.

People can go and have a complete evening, go and have a great meal down by Riverside, walk to the game, have an unbelievable experience.

But also put down to the growth that we're seeing in our crowds across the whole competition.

This is the third year in a row that we're going to host some really pleasing crowd attendance growth numbers.

Now, have we ended up, though, with the situation that we kind of want to avoid, which is that we have a predictable outcome most likely for the next round, which will be four New Zealand teams?

What makes you happy about it?

Yeah, I mean, I think in, um, in a number of ways I'm re- I'm really happy.

When we sat down at the start of the year, we wanted to achieve a few things.

Um, and, and largely those things have come to fruition.

A couple of those things were we wanted to continue to, uh, see improvement in our shape of game, uh, in terms of, you know, the quality of the rugby played on the field, and how entertaining that is for fans, and we've seen some really good moves in that.

Um, we've seen a reduction in dead time by about three minutes.

The lore innovations we've put in play have, have helped generate that, and also brought some interest into it.

In terms of that, in terms of these three games, uh, and two Australian sides in the top six, same top six as last year, are you disappointed in the performance of the Australian teams? Did you expect more from them this year?

But what are the stats saying in terms of dead time, dead ball and play?

Yeah...

Yeah, we're really pleased is that that sort of trend is continuing.

We're about three minutes less dead time on average compared to last season, which is really pleasing.

We're now at a stage where we're really pleased with that sort of trend where that's at, you know, tries are good.

And I think, you know, really pleasing for me is that the Canes are playing a game that is winning games in a really attractive style.

And, you know, I think where we've got the game with the laws and with the management, it's encouraging teams to play.

what about the health of the comp i know there's a big conversation here about moana pacifica and maybe winston peters having something to do with that do you know much about what the goings on there and the future for moana

What are the stats saying in terms of dead time, dead ball and play?

Yeah.

Yeah, we're really pleased is that that sort of trend is continuing.

We're about three minutes less dead time on average compared to last season, which is really pleasing.

We're now at a stage where we're really pleased with that sort of trend.

where that's at, you know, tries a good, and I think, you know, really pleasing for me is, is that the, the Canes are playing a game that is winning games in a really attractive style.

And, you know, I think where we've got the game with the laws and with the, with the management, it's encouraging teams to play and, and to want the ball and to get the ball into space.

what about the health of the comp i know there's a big conversation here about moana pacifica and maybe winston peters having something to do with that do you know much about what the going's on there and the future for moana

Do you re- you r- think this is a real step in the, uh, the right direction in terms of fan engagement and what the fans then experienced over the weekend?

Yeah, I, I think so, mate.

Um, you know, we're an international competition.

Uh, touring is part of rugby's DNA, you know.

Um, I think that sort of lead- lead- leads well to events like this.

A- and then, you know, multi da- I mean, y- y- I know I've, I've heard your, some of your comments, mate, and, and I know you and I have sort of been, uh, offline a bit.

It, it just feels like, you know, this could be an event that sort of replaces the sevens and, you know, becomes something so much more than a round of Super Rugby Pacific.

Like, what needs to happen to ensure that the event can be taking place in Christchurch again?

Do you feel like, I know you've spoken about being fan-centric and something about the fans, do you re- you think this is a real step in the, the right direction in terms of fan engagement and what the fans have experienced over the weekend?

Yeah, I, I think so, mate.

Um, you know, we're an international competition.

Uh, touring is part of rugby's DNA, you know? Um, I think that sort of lead, lead, leads well to events like this.

A- and then, you know, multi da- I mean, y- y- I know I've s- I've heard your, some of your comments, mate, and, and I know you and I have sort of been, uh, offline a bit.

It, it just feels like, you know, this could be an event that sort of replaces the sevens and, you know, becomes something so much more than a round of Super Rugby Pacific.

Um, so yeah, I think it, I think we can, we can run with this momentum, uh, create something very special, um, a- and build on it year after year.

Like, what needs to happen to ensure that the event can be taking place in Christchurch again?

Well, listen, Jack, is this maybe the answer to the flagging audiences and crowds that you, well, not audiences, but crowd attendance that you have for Super Rugby? Should you maybe turn it into a tournament and tour it around the country?

Like this.

It's maybe not a bad idea.

You know, I think the good news is we've had a couple of years now of crowd growth.

We know we've got a long way to go, but we're headed in the right direction.

Major events are definitely a part of the solution.

And playing in great stadiums like the Crusaders will from now on is also part of the solution, creating unbelievable match day experience.

Now, is Malcolm Gillies right that we should privatise Super Rugby to give it a bit of a chance?

it seems to be working.

Yeah.

And it's been a journey, right? I think since, um, I think '22 was probably where the, the competition and, and everyone sort of got together and said, "Okay, w- we need some serious work here." So since the end of the '22 season, this has been a continual journey, great work done by, by all, a lot of people to get it to the, the space where we are now.

But, you know, we now, we now are looking really closely, um, at everything we can do just to get the, the minutiae changes now, because we've, we've sucked a lot of that static time out now and, and, and we are now maximizing ball in play time.

So to, to give you kind of listeners a f- a few, a few sort of stats here, you know, if we look at m- our total match duratio- duration, back in '22, uh, we were 94 minutes, we're now 89 minutes.

And then the mix of that, so our, our total match has shrunk by, by five minutes, but then the mix within it, we've cut a hell of a lot of static time, circa 10 minutes, and, and increased a hell of a lot of ball in play time.

Um, and I, I don't think anyone misses that static time.

There is a, I suppose, more of a lean of World Rugby towards supporting a lot of the innovations that have come through Super Rugby at, at international level.

What can you tell us? What can you tell the fans out there that you have seen improve this season?

Well, I think if we start with our core product, you know, we've been on a journey probably since 2022 of really trying to enhance our core products and what happens between the white stripes.

And, you know, we've seen great momentum on that over the last couple of years, and that's really continued this year.

So the amount of static time is coming down.

The amount of ball in play is coming up.

uh that's translating into points into integrate great rugby great attacking rugby which which is excellent so yeah i think we if i give ourselves a big a big tick on core product is continuing to shape in the right direction uh and we're really really pleased with that um i think we talked a bit about jeopardy you know and there continues to be an increased level of unexpected results which is which is also really great so i think in in our core products field we're looking really good in terms of our attending attendance you know we've seen a couple of years of really of consecutive growth which is which is excellent uh and this season i think we'll we'll we will post some really positive numbers by the end of the season as well so that'll be three years in a row of consecutive crowd growth but there's a long way to go in that and we we sit here saying it's growing but it's nowhere near where we want it to be um And the clubs are working really hard on that match day experience to go along with the improvements in core product to continue to make sure we've got a really attractive offer for people to come in stadium.

But really pleasingly, you know, and think about Waratahs are in good growth.

But is it a frustration? I mean, what can be done to kind of offset that?

So how important has that been?

Yeah, it's a great example of adding layers for people to be able to engage with the competition.

And yeah, it's been great.

We know from our data that I think the stats, 34% of people that play fantasy are watching more and attending more so it's a you know it gets people involved and and and really interesting what it is helping to do is to build knowledge of other teams and other players and so you know everyone who played fantasy then learned more about moana pacifica Everyone that played fantasy knew more about Carlo Tisano all of a sudden.

And so, again, building that one competition mentality where as a fan of a team in our competition, you are suddenly knowing more, caring more about other teams and other players outside of your team is really important.

Yeah.

But it's an example of just trying to give fans of our competition just more things to engage with.

behind the camera here that you're working towards one day?