So how do you get, sorry for my ignorance, but how do you go from playing school rugby to being in the Hulk AR Academy? And why Hulk AR?

Yeah, okay, so by the age of sort of 17, I was playing pretty, I was playing good rugby, but only at Heimer's, but I was a decent player.

And it was my dad, actually, who had the idea.

He said, in the off-season, why don't you try and play some rugby league? I didn't really fancy going and playing for one of the amateur clubs.

I was, you know, Posh Hyman's lad.

I didn't really fancy it.

And the backs coach at school was a guy called Dave Harrison, who used to be the head coach for OKR.

Yeah, so talk a bit about that.