Jack, what about that idea of, of erasure, whether that's active or a sort of passive form of erasure?

Yeah, I definitely don't think that there is active erasure, certainly moving through history.

I mean, there may have been in the past.

Um, certainly not now with, uh, historians obviously like Meredith herself doing important work on, on, on, on women's history in the 20th century.

Um, now I, I, I th- I think I've got to fully agree with her on that, is that it, it, it is the archive.

There'll be biases in who decides what is important and what isn't, and the funding of recording that.

Um, I really don't think that most people in the 21st century, um, are going to be deliberately excluding one set of people or another.

Can you get, have you got any clues as to what AI might be able to do to create a new form of history that isn't great person history and isn't social history? It's maybe something completely different.

as well.

Yeah.

Well, obviously, obviously that's ridiculous.

I mean, if you look at obviously when, uh, Suella went on question time, uh, the, uh, the other week and she was grilled for, you know, having, having the goals to say that yes, you know, English is an ethnicity.

I think she said in the Telegraph last year, for Englishness to mean something substantial, it has to be about ancestry, heritage, uh, and yes, ethnicity.

Obviously, Matt Goodwin made similar points when he was in Gorton and Denton.

And, you know, we've had more people say that, you know, I think Danny Kruger has recently said that, you know, we shouldn't just be giving British passports out like anything.

Jack, who have you gone for?

And for our premium subscribers, I speak to independent journalist Jack Hadfield on the latest wave of anti-immigration protests and the shameful two-tier justice that they're facing.

It is a massive concern to the state and should be when people are basically taking up arms themselves and saying, not only have you failed, you failed so badly and for so long that we can no longer trust you at all to now come along and fix this.

But so just tell us a bit about what we've been seeing and why that is different to what's gone in years before.

Yeah.

So if we roll it back really to the protests following Southport in 2024, that's when we can see a marked sea change from general rightist anti-immigration protests.

of previous years to what we see now.

That was involving, say, the EDL, Britain First.

These were organization-led marches with a structure, people at the top directing things, and they would generally be just generally counter-jihad, anti-Muslim protests, or against immigration in general.

University of Northampton and white privilege.

Yeah, so at the incoming freshers at University of Northampton now, obviously with the new university year just starting, when you come into university, there's all sorts of little different courses and things you have to do.

You'll be taught about accommodation and, hey, here's your fire exits and all of that.

And here's where your classes are.

All very standard stuff that the universities will hand out to people, e-learning.

Totally normal.

Great.

So could we not say, actually, that there is black privilege now and today?

through basically a kind of racist progressive ideology, over-promoted somebody who wasn't fit to be in such an exposed position and then abandoned him to the situation they created? Or does the responsibility lie on the media class? Are we, even by having this conversation sort of continuing, as some of the left would say, to kind of feed off of that frenzy? Or does the responsibility lie with Jason Arday?

Yeah.

Well, just picking up really on what you said, where you said that Cambridge failed our day, I think I would disagree in this specific instance.

I think you're right overall if you look at ethnic minorities who are very good at what they do and exist in the DEI system.

As Charlie Kirk once said, he said that if he saw a black pilot, he would get nervous because he doesn't know if they've just been overpromoted because of DEI or they actually got there.

are on their own merits.

So for those ethnic minorities who would get there in these positions, say at a Cambridge professorship, whatever it is, by their own merits, you're right.

Does that result in the doubling down? Does that make our situation much worse and lead us down the road to Woke 2.0? Yeah,

Tell me the latest in the UK and what the wave of protests is about specifically.

specifically.Yeah, so what we've seen, uh, recently obviously since, uh, Burnham became prime minister is a different take from the office of PM on how we should actually be dealing with asylum seekers.

By take, I mean the way it's been framed politically.

Um, we've obviously had asylum seekers being placed in hotels and army barracks and so on and so forth across the country.

Uh, but now Burnham, who obviously has replaced Keir Starmer, they're, they're two different types of guys.

One is Starmer is a London metropolitan elite, lawyer, intellectual type, uh, someone who is sort of, sort of rooted in the south and obviously is very, um, middle class.

Burnham is from the North, Manchester, well, Liverpool originally, but you know, he is a, he is a man of Manchester.

Yeah.

Why do you think this happened?

Yeah, so in terms of actually why it happened or the immediate response to it, because obviously why it happened, it does seem that there was these people almost working with Moroccan authorities.

There were tales of some of the migrants saying that Some Moroccan police officers were allegedly telling them, you know, go towards the border, go over that way.

I have heard previously of some people who've worked in North African governments.

I can't remember if it was from Tunisia or Algeria.

former government minister there, I saw an interview with him just recently, said that, yes, actually, you know, the governments on the other side of the Mediterranean do want a lot of these people to be gone, because a lot in their cases, they will be criminals, people they don't want in their society.

And they said, well, actually, yeah, if Spain and Europe takes them, then they're their problem, not ours.

Can you expand a little bit on that?

How damaging do you think this has been for reform?

Are you? Obviously, there has been that sort of idea of the sleaze that surrounds it.

But I think they were right strategically with Nigel to call the Clapton by-election when he did.

Because I think what's going to happen is now that none of the parties, none of the major parties have stood against him, he'll come back in Clacton with something like 70 plus percent of the vote above.

Yeah, it will be a significant well over majority and he'll be returned into Parliament.

And it'll be likely the case that the Parliamentary Standards Commission will force another by-election again uh because of course that's the only thing that you can do uh as an actual punishment to uh to an MP uh who you know who fails these things but then of course well then they'll go well hang on we know exactly what the outcome of this is going to be what I've had 75% the vote last month you think I'm not going to get that again so what's the point of this so we know that you're all doing this again and so the reframing of this is then instead of if they'd waited for Parliament to call a by-election, the entire narrative would instead have been focused completely on the sleaze, the £5 million.

But now it then has been flipped.

That's the test.

... as a country

...

if, if, I mean, especially if we're taking people from what is frankly an enemy country to the West now, Iran.

You know, we can get into the whole war and stuff, it's a whole different kettle of fish.

But it's very obvious that Iran is not friendly to Britain.

The Iranian regime does not like Britain and does not like British people.

It is, it is an Islamist terrorist regime.

Because the new polls today, and this is bad news for you at Reform UK, show Labour taking the lead.

There's a lot there, but let's hear it.

Yeah.

So the by-election happened in [clears throat] Makerfield, which is, uh, just south of Wigan, which is a town, uh, in the northwest of, of Greater Manchester, historically in the Lancashire area.

And so, uh, Andy Burnham ran in that seat.

He was only able to run in that seat because the former Labour MP, Joss Simons, specifically stepped down so that Burnham, who as you said was the mayor of Greater Manchester, um, was then able to get a seat back in the Commons and challenge Keir Starmer for the leadership.

Now, looking at the previous polls on this, now while this had been a Labour seat for, you know, the past 100 or so years, basically ever since it's been created, and the previous seats that came before it, um, uh, the polls at the time basically had Reform winning by around 50% of the vote if there were to be a general election in Makerfield at the time.

And I think if there was any other candidate in any other time, Reform would win in Makerfield.

What, i- is, is there, is there any daylight between Starmer and, and, uh, Burnham on this stuff?

You know, what, what, how did the event, uh, the protest begin?

Yeah.

So the protest was first organized for 6:00 PM outside of Southampton Central Police Station, which is, uh, further to the center of Southampton proper.

And around there, I would say 3 to 4,000 or so people are my estimate, uh, turned out for the, uh, main event protest of the evening, where there are a number of speakers, Tommy Robinson for one, Nick Griffin from UKIP, uh, Kellie-Jay Keen of, uh, Let Women Speak, Richard Inman, um, for example.

Uh, and this was the primary, uh, peaceful protest designated for the evening.

Now, just because it was peaceful doesn't mean that there, uh, wasn't anger and tension within the crowd.

You know, there were already chants of, uh, "I can't breathe," um, "Racist police off our streets," um, ironically slogans which you would have usually heard at leftist, more George Floyd-y BLM protests there.

our policing and our justice system has already been so politicized towards ethnic minorities by, um, you know, since 2020 but really going back much further than that, all the way to the Macpherson report in 1999 a- a- and since, that you need some kind of countervailing force, and you can't just let the so-called independent institutions, um, work this out themselves.

Tell us about what it really was, because Keir Starmer, he seems very upset and intent to throw the book at these people who are out there protesting over this murder and the police's lack of response to it.

yeah so what you've got to understand about the protest last night is that there are really two protests in a way the first one started at 6 p.m outside the southampton central police station uh just near the train station the south of the town and i would estimate there are around three to four thousand people who turned up there and that's when people like uh tommy robinson nick tankoni from ukip Kelly J. Keene from Let Women Speak spoke on the issue there.

And then post that, post the main speaker event, the crowd then moved two miles north to Portswood, the Portswood police station, which was actually just around the corner from Belmont Road, where the house was where Henry Novak succumbed.

to his injuries from Vikram Digwer.

And so in that transition period, the first protest was completely peaceful.

It was there with people paying their respects to Henry and making their voices heard to the police.

interesting it's crazy having gone to a more sort of rightist protest to hear chants of i can't breathe which was henry novak's last words um and you know racist police off our streets which is phrases you usually hear at leftist uh anti-police protests And so then in the second half of the protest, given that it was two miles up the road, the crowd really thinned out.

Where do we go from here? When you spoke to the protesters, what did they want to see in terms of relief?

Do you think there's going to be an election sooner than the prescribed date of, I think, what, 2029?

Uh, yeah.

Uh, currently, yes, he is on track to be prime minister.

And this, even with, but this will come down, all the way down to the Makerfield by-election, as I think we've discussed previously.

But, um, interestingly, looking at that now, uh, Andy Burnham is obviously running there and, uh, for, for Labor, in, in which case, and if he wins, he'll definitely become the next Labor leader.

If he does that, he's far more likely to call an election, um, early on.

Now, he hasn't said a single thing about Henry Novak, and I think this is his first big mess-up-... of the campaign.

Is the UK, is it too late?

Right

...

Novak's last words.

Of course, extremely evocative of George Floyd.

They were chanting that then, and also, "Racist police off our streets," another slogan-You expect to hear at leftist protests.

So that was all, you know, pretty peaceful, but there was obviously anger within the crowd.

Um, after that protest finished, the, um, a good chunk of the protesters then marched around one and a half, two miles north up to Portswood Police Station, which was just around the corner from where the killing actually took place.

Right.

'Cause Keir Starmer, he seems very upset and intent to, uh, throw the book at these people who are out there protesting over this murder and the police's lack of response to it.

Hmm.

Yeah, so what you've gotta understand about the protest last night is that there were really two protests in a way.

The first one started at 6:00 PM outside the Southampton Central Police Station, uh, just near the train station in the south of the town, and I would estimate there were around 3 to 4,000 people who turned up there, and that's when people like, uh, Tommy Robinson, Nick Tacconi from UKIP, uh, Kellie-Jay Keen from Let Women Speak, um, spoke on the issue there.

Uh, and then post that, um, post the main speaker event, the crowd then moved, uh, two miles north to Portsmouth, the Portsmouth Police Station, which was actually just round the corner, uh, from Belmont Road, uh, where the house was where, uh, Henry Novak succumbed to his injuries from Vikram Digwa.

And so in that transition period, the first protest was completely peaceful.

It was a, uh, it was, it was there with people paying their respects to Henry and making their voices heard, uh, like, uh, to the police.

Where do we go from here? When you spoke to the protesters, what did they want to see in terms of relief?

Because Keir Starmer, he seems very upset and intent to throw the book at these people who are out there protesting over this murder and the police's lack of response to it.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So what you've got to understand about the protests last night is that there are really two protests in a way.

The first one started at 6 p.m. outside the Southampton Central Police Station, just near the train station, the south of the town.

And I would estimate there are around three to four thousand people who turned up there.

And that's when people like Tommy Robinson, Nick D'Anconi from UKIP arrived.

Where do we go from here? When you spoke to the protesters, what did they want to see in terms of relief?

He's selling it

... because he said the reason why you do this was because you have to have people support you to then get into power to actually change the things that need to be done.

Once he then has...

He's at the top of the polls, he's like, "Okay," his instinct is, let's not screw this up.

I'm in the position now, hold it, and then, you know, we can get into power and do the things that we need to do.

I think in some of his instincts he has been in- a little bit incorrect.

If you look at, for example, what he, um, when he was talking about stuff, which is December 2024, seemed to have a bit of a wobble then, and I was a little bit, a bit concerned about this at the time.

Yes.

What do you think of Rupert Lowe?

Yeah, I completely agree.

I think the polls there now have them around three to four percent when prompted.

And in an election that we're going to have in 2029, there'll be so many constituencies which will be extremely tight margins and taking three to four percent away from reform in that way could lead to absolute disaster, either lead to a coalition with the conservatives where they could continue on into the future as still a party and aren't totally destroyed and replaced by reform, or it leads to this leftist rainbow coalition government, in which case they'll open the borders even more.

And quite frankly, when you get to like demographic changes, it's entirely possible the right can then no longer win again after 2029.

It's such a life and death election here.

And that's why I've been so vocal against Restore because like the argument is that Restore are to the right of reform significantly.

What do you think?

What is the mindset of indigenous Brits right now? I mean, how can you bear any more of this?

Yeah, I do think people are really waking up now and have done since Southport, I would say, was really the tipping point.

And then what happened in Southport, the riots that then took place over a week there, you know, simmered down, but then came back into the published consciousness, as we mentioned, over the last six months or so.

So I do think that people who were non-political or even on the left have... have now sort of woken up to the problem of mass migration, demographic change, all of these issues that were even taboo to talk about before Nigel Farage really took on the scene with UKIP and then Brexit.

And then it really has just been building and building and building over the last 20 years.

And I think we still have more to go.

quite frankly.

What do you think of his pinned tweet?

It's risen by 8%.

Yes, exactly.

You know, we are seeing these numbers increasing, even though, of course, the government wants to move away from hotels towards more HMOs, you know, scattered and separated from one central location.

But, of course, that hasn't actually stopped the protests.

When there was a protest in Nuneaton a few weeks ago, that was after a case involving residents allegedly in one HMO.

But yeah, I do just want to agree with Peter as well on one thing, that this has been a result of 14 years of Conservative government.

It was the Boris wave after 2020 when we're seeing so many more legal arrivals coming into this country.

What do you make of that, Jack, then? There is public consent for a level of migration, but perhaps not the level that we've been seeing in recent years.