Would you comment on those three?

Yes.

Well, tragically, I don't remember hearing the gospel in the church that I was in growing up, and, um, I was very young, so it's possible that it was said, but I certainly don't remember ha- having, seeing scripture opened, um, exposited, um, taught to me, and I wasn't, we weren't abiding in the Word ourselves, so I didn't have a biblical foundation.

But I thought that I was a Christian like I was an American.

I thought it was just something that I was born into as part of my family.

I even once asked one of my family members if so and so in our family who had passed away was a Christian, and the answer was, "Of course, everyone in our family is Christian." So it just seemed like something that I was born into.

But without having that biblical foundation, truly knowing who Jesus is, understanding the gospel, God's holiness, my sin, and what God has done to be both just, as He is just, and love, as God is love, to send His Son to live the perfect life that I've not lived, to go to the cross, to die bearing sinners' sin and God's wrath in the place of sinners, to die and then raise, ascend to the right hand of God the Father as the one and only mediator between God and man, that we can truly be free, truly be free from sin, be washed clean, offered full forgiveness through repentance and faith.

Tell us a little bit about that.

Explain the concept and then how you thought you were able to do that.

Yes.

So much of the concept is the idea that magic isn't something outside of you.

And it's almost in some senses, not even for the chosen.

In some sense, they would say, you know, some have been chosen for these initiations or this school of thought or whatever.

But in general, everyone has magic inside of them that they have the right to unlock.

And it just reminds me so much of Genesis 3, you know, Satan lying and being like, did God really say you shouldn't eat from this tree? you know you won't die your eyes will be opened and you will be like god knowing good and evil and that's the same lie and that was really my heart was to show that because god used me remembering genesis 3 to bring me to salvation because i realized i'm not falling for some new lie this is the same lie that led to the fall of mankind and it's a deception and it's destructive so i just throughout the occult that is a lie and so when it comes to the magic inside of you it's really like Hey, for me, I can speak for myself.

How did you make that connection? And is it my understanding that usually it's primarily men in leadership in Freemasonry and the Masonic Lodge? Tell us a little bit about that because I know we touched on it quite a while back with you, but I forgot that part of your story.

You meet up with a friend who's a Native American and talk to me about this individual and then talk to me about this person called C that comes into your life because he is significant.

Yes.

So I ended up meeting a man who was native American and lived on a reservation and he was a bit older than me, but I became completely infatuated with him and started a relationship with him.

And I would stay on the reservation with him.

We'd stay up all night.

drinking and doing drugs and talking about Native American spirituality.

And at this point, I had started to believe, because I'd heard about aliens and UFOs, that that must have been what I saw as a child and what I had continued experiencing throughout my life.

Tell me about that day.

surprise you that you felt emptier and emptier?

Yes.

But sadly in the occult, the lie is that if you just keep going, if you go deeper, if you shine the light of knowledge, you just have to keep gaining more knowledge, go further, go further.

And then it all makes sense.

And it's this never ending trail where there's no there, there, except, you know, if I had died in that state, I would have gone to hell because I was not trusting in Jesus for my salvation.

So it's terrifying to think of.

But I really was in torment.

Talk about some of that.

And when you were converted, how did that, I guess, what is the question I'm trying to ask? Like when you were saved, did that leave you or did you have to go to like this extra ministry to be delivered from things or how did that look for you? Yeah.

Yes, great question.

I'm extremely passionate about this because I was truly so deep in this stuff.

When I talk about it now as a saved woman in Christ, praise God, it's hard to articulate.

I truly believed that I was too far gone to be saved, that I dug myself into a pit too deep to ever crawl out of, that even Jesus couldn't save me.

I had no hope.

All I knew was impending doom.

What was the view of the Bible, maybe in the occult in general, but specifically in Golden Dawn?