And was that aesthetic choice or creative choice between personal agency and social agency something you were consciously designing

Yeah, I feel like that is a bit how it, to me, feels in the, well, how we do it in the real world as well.

Of course, we're born in a certain body and a gender and a sexuality.

And a lesbian simulator, I do force you to be a lesbian, but you can customize, of course.

But the thing that happens mostly when after you come out, These are things that are gonna happen to you and that's why I kind of yeah, you you don't have agency on how the world is gonna respond to you to your sexuality so in lesbian simulator you have to Yeah, just live it through and I feel like that's how it feels a bit in the real world as well like I'm here as a queer person and I have to navigate this world I can't control how people will like talk or interact with me some of them are really nice some of them are really horrible so I tried to recreate that in Lesbian Simulator but I really liked you for people that are for example not lesbians the fact that you can create your own avatar and do the sort of mini games in the beginning where you do have that agency I also wanted the player to feel a connection with their avatars as far as you can have that in 40 minutes.

So that's why, yeah, some parts you can choose a bit your own path and in some parts there's something just happening to you, yeah.

Is that something you wanted to create?

Yeah, in this level, I think multiple factors are at play.

When making this game, what was it like, I guess, imagining these life experiences into a game format and a playable one where people can interact?

Yeah, it started mostly with me because of course it has a story.

It's a linear experience with interactions, but you will always go to the same next scene.

So there's a little bit of influence, I'd say, but not where you will end up in the story.

But I started mostly by looking at my own life and the life of some of my queer friends and same patterns that we had.

So I started sort of making a list of levels with themes that I would like to talk about.

So that is, for example, the phase where we explore ourselves on the internet before we come out and also going to a queer rave but also to coming out and then after coming out having scenarios where you go in a public space and and there's people that suddenly have a negative opinion about you So I started collecting these themes and building a little bit of a narrative around them.

Where do you imagine this game going next?