Mm-hmm.

So I really was in this individual place, like trying to help people, but I'm watching, you know, I'm watching really the system take a hold, and it- what it was looking like was another systemic problem.

And, you know, and of course what you just said earlier is that, you know, systems, you know, do crush humans.

You know? But, you know, I didn't...

I guess I'm like Groundhog Day, you know? I thought, "Well, the mental health system is doing it, and I know that the criminal l- you know, legal system has problems," but I'll tell you, you know, in all, and I, you know, we can break down some of the cases that I worked on even just simply.

But over time, you know, what it came down to was as I'm in the criminal legal system as a public defender, and then I left and I went into, I was a partner at a, at a law firm, and then I created my own law firm, and through this time span I started getting bigger cases.

And with the bigger cases became more at stake for prosecutors.

Mm-hmm.