Would you, uh, would you agree with the contention that, uh, A, the Khilafat movement was seen as extremely reactionary by a lot of people, uh, within the Congress too, and I think Gandhi saw it as a way of bringing people together, but others saw it as a sign of appealing for backward kind of institutions, and two, the failure of the Khilafat movement, for whatever it's worth, has in some ways resonated to, in India of today?

Well, I think it's very, it's a very complex, uh, issue.

I think the Khilafat movement is often caricatured, uh, in the sense that, uh, the Khilafatists are assumed, uh, often to have been interested in a, a sort of niche sectarian, uh, Muslim religious issue, which is the preservation of the Caliphate, uh, or, or they're considered to have been, uh, kind of slavishly devoted to, uh, the Ottomans and to the Caliph.

And, and that wasn't true.

Uh, the Ali brothers were heavily critical of the Ottomans in many ways.

Um, and, uh, and their strongest relations were with the Young Turks, uh, who w- ... who, who were fighting, um, against the, uh, European occupation and later with Mustafa Kemal, who was seen as the great anti-colonial hero.

So they, they saw this as a movement of anti-colonial solidarity, and a highly political one.

You have tried to use many other, uh, uh, suggestions, but isn't it unfounded or, if that's as true- too strong a word, un, uh, proven?