Ilya explained how Ukraine adapted to counter the drone threat

Well, let's start with those drones that have captured the Western imaginations, the Shaheds and their equivalents.

So they are essentially larger drones with a warhead of about 50 to 100 kilograms, which, uh, most of the time are pre-programmed, so they do not use a communication link between the drone and the pilot.

So the pilot is not controlling the drone directly.

And, uh, the Western militaries have been trying to intercept.

By the Western, I mean, like, the Gulf States too, because they are using Western equipment.

They have been trying to shoot down Shahed drones with very expensive interceptors, like PAC-3, Patriot, for example, and it costs millions of dollars.

And what about your own personal experiences on the front? How are Ukraine soldiers taking down drones there now?

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Hello, my name is Ilya Shakurin, and I'm an unofficial advisor to Ukrainian high command, and I've also been a frontline drone operator.

And I describe my experience in a book I've just released called Rise of the Machines: Drone Warfare in the Russia-Ukraine War.

War.So when I was a drone operator on the frontlines in 2022 and 2023, there were much fewer drones back then.

But even then, when you hear a drone buzzing overhead, you try to conceal yourself.

I remember there was artillery.

It was hitting all, all around us, like mortars, artillery, multiple rocket launchers, tanks even firing at us, and the most dangerous thing was the drone.

He then authored a paper that helped inform President Zelenskyy's decision to create unmanned systems forces, essentially drone squadrons, as a separate branch of Ukraine's armed forces.

Can you talk about it from this kind of a personal individual experience of a drone operator on the ground?

Yes, of course, there's a specialization of what drone you're flying, because if it's a fixed wing drone, then it is one type of training.

And if it's a heavy bomber, say, of vampire class or heavy shot class, then it's another type of training.

and the drone kill zone and the expansion of the drone kill zone has really made an impact on how operations are planned and executed so previously it could go up to the front lines more or less easily but nowadays they have a 10 to 20 kilometer or more drone kill zone within which enemy drones have achieved such a saturation that it's really becomes dangerous to move and so you try to limit your exposure and movement from cover to cover to as little as possible that is why the infantry is staying in the same foxholes for long periods we are talking about 50 or 100 days long periods at a time and they are resupplied by aerial drones or and increasingly by UGVs unmanned ground vehicles that is land robots And similar situation applies to the drone operators, but to a lesser extent.

So even though they can be located further away from the front lines, it's still like say like five to 10 kilometer distance where they're mostly located depending on the mission.

But they all stay in their positions longer, drone operators, compared to previously.

And they are often nowadays resupplied with drone equipment by UJVs, by robots.

Could you talk about that?