Yeah.

Would, would the, the, the Versailles Treaties' harshness towards Germany have created a rebellion against anyway? They, they pretty much impoverished the middle classes, as a result of which there would've been a backlash anyway.

And you wonder how much, how much does the, does a person matter in, in leadership, and where does it all come from, and how does it all work? So that's his whole thesis.

Um, are circumstances shaped by leaders or leaders shaped by circumstance?

Yeah

... as much as the others.

If you go, if you drop all the way down to the next 200, it goes down to a mere 8 or 12 times as much.

The question is, do, do they make such a big difference? And, and he, he uses a fascinating idea, which I think can be used all, in all sorts of situations, which he calls the Hamlet test.

MySpace and co. Yeah.

Yeah, indeed.

Indeed.

So we have to worry about that.

And then you also, his book covers quite a few different leadership and different, it's business, there's sport, there's history, there's religion.

Um, And he said, by the way, that's not the whole scale, but that's the ones he dealt with.

If Jesus hadn't been Jesus, would somebody else have done what he had done and created a religion in the Middle East that just spread out to Europe and the rest of the world? So the question then is, what's the matter to you as a business person? Well, quite a lot, because if you look at the top 40 of the companies on the JSC, their executives compared to chief executives, senior people, compared to chief executives, chief executives earn between 10 and 20 times as much as the others.

Yes.

Yeah.

Would, would the, the, the Versailles treaties' harshness towards Germany have created a rebellion against anyway? They, they pretty much impoverished the middle classes, as a result of which there would have been a backlash anyway.

And you wonder how much, how much does the, does a person matter in, in leadership? And where does it all come from? And how does it all work? So that's his whole thesis.

Um, are circumstances shaped by leaders or leaders shaped by circumstances?

Mm

... leadership in different...

There's business, there's sport, there's history, there's religion.

And he said, by the way, that's not the whole scale, but that's the ones he dealt with.

MySpace and co. Yeah.

Yeah, indeed.

Indeed.

So we have to worry about that.

And then you also, his book covers quite a few different leadership and different, it's business, there's sport, there's history, there's religion.

Um, And he said, by the way, that's not the whole scale, but that's the ones he dealt with.

If Jesus hadn't been Jesus, would somebody else have done what he had done and created a religion in the Middle East that just spread out to Europe and the rest of the world? So, the question then is, what's the matter to you as a business person? Well, quite a lot, because if you look at the top 40 of the companies on the JSC, their executives compared to chief executives, senior people, compared to chief executives, chief executives earn between 10 and 20 times as much as the others.

Yeah.

It

comes from trading in wildlife, trading in people, illegal gambling, all sorts of things which humanity is destroyed by when it gets out there into the public.

If you have a look at the evolution of money laundering, money laundering is the only way you can get illegal money into the system.

Because if it's not laundered, the laundry bit comes from apparently in the 30s or earlier, the gangs in Chicago used to trade, put their money into laundries, and that's where they'd do their deals.

That's probably where money laundering came from.

But if you can launder your money, then it's clean.

Now, for a long time, it was quite easy to do.

So people aren't using banks, they're using these high-denomination banknotes.

This is a book about money laundering.

Money laundering, yes.

Firstly, the question is how big is money laundering? Is it a real issue or is it just another problem? Well, if you figure that there's about $100 trillion turnover on the planet and between 3% and 5% of that is illegal money.

We're now talking some serious money, enormous amounts of money, trillions.

And trillions is a lot of money, 14 noughts.

And that's what is going through the system illegally.

Let me just put that in perspective.

So people aren't using banks, they're using these high denomination banknotes.

Mm.

They have a billion people, not all billion active, but they have a billion people to look at, which means that they know an enormous amount about what's happening in terms, in, in terms of the labor market, in terms of professional markets.

They have a lot of, uh, data available to them.

Secondly, the, the, the approach is that don't bother fighting this stuff.

Luddites were here.

They've, they've gone.

Then we had people off with even before the, I'm not sure, before us-

Yeah.

Mm.

They have a billion people.

Not all billion are active, but they have a billion people to look at, which means that they know an enormous amount about what's happening in terms, in, in terms of the labor market, in terms of professional market.

They have a lot of, ex, um, data available to them.

Secondly, the, the, the approach is that don't bother fighting this stuff.

Luddites were here, they- they've gone.

Then we had people off with, even before the, I'm not sure, before or after-

Yeah.

In the Business Book Review this week, Ian Mann, MD of Gateways Business Consultants, joined Stephen and reviewed How to Not Know by Simone Stolzhoff, a compelling guide to navigating uncertainty, building resilience in the face of ambiguity, and embracing the unknown in our careers, politics, and personal lives.

The way that they look at it is to say, we want to know for sure.

Our brains are designed for prediction.

We're a prediction machine.

I think that human beings are probably the only animal that really is predictive.

You can tell me that animals store food or they hibernate, but that's biological.

We actually, our minds, plan deliberately.

why

How does this book advise we deal with that very interesting and quite understandable human phenomenon of wanting to know for sure?

We...

The, the way that they look at this, say we want to know for sure.

Our brains are designed for prediction.

We're, we're a prediction machine.

I think that human beings are probably the only animal that really is predictive.

You can tell me that animals store food or they hibernate, but that's biological.

Yeah

How does this book advise we deal with that very interesting and quite understandable human phenomenon of wanting to know for sure?

The way that they look at it is to say we want to know for sure.

Our brains are designed for prediction.

We're a prediction machine.

I think that human beings are probably the only animal that really is predictive.

You can tell me that animals store food or they hibernate, but that's biological.

We actually, our minds plan deliberately and we get in that way.

Wow.

Yeah.

So a hostage negotiator is somebody who has to get to an agreement.

One of the most popular approaches to strategy, sorry, to negotiation is a technique.

And one of the things they tell you in the technique is find your BATNA, best alternative to a negotiated agreement.

Hostage negotiators don't want the best alternative to negotiate.

They want both people to really want it to work.

And his whole book is designed on how to get it to work for everyone.

Yes.

Yeah.

So a hostage negotiator is somebody who has to get to an agreement.

One of the most popular approaches to strategy, sorry, to negotiation is a technique.

And one of the things they tell you in the technique is find your BATNA, best alternative to a negotiated agreement.

Hostage negotiators don't want the best alternative to negotiate.

They want both people to really want it to work.

And his whole book is designed on how to get it to work for everyone.

Yes.

Am I right? One of the people who wrote this book is actually a former hostage negotiator.

The book is inspired by a former hostage negotiator, a very, very good one, Chris Voss.

He wrote a book many years ago called Don't Split the Difference.

He's been a hostage negotiator in America and around the world for over probably 25 years.

And the one thing a hostage negotiator must understand is we can't split the difference.

You want a getaway car and a million dollars? I can't give you that.

I'll give you a getaway car so you can only kill half the people.

a clue.

Yeah.

So the, the hostage negotiator is somebody who has to, has to get to, has to get to an agreement.

General- uh, one of the most popular approaches to, to strategy, sorry, to, to negotiation, is to, is a technique, and one of the things they tell you in the technique is find your BATNA, best alternative to a negotiated agreement.

Hostage, hostage negotiators don't want the best alternative n- to a negotiate.

Mm

... because this is gonna take care of both of those things." Once you can get to the stage of logic plus emotion and get to empathy, you, you're in a much, much better position to negotiate.

And they, they give a whole bunch of, a lot of good steps, and one of the, one of the best parts of the book, I think, is called the, the 10 laws of gra- of negotiation gravity.

Why they're called negotiated gravity is 'cause if you ask people what gravity is, they'll be able to give you a description of how you-