like in the time that you've been doing this and you've been doing this for a lot of years, you know, In observing how people come into these groups and these juries, how do they react? I mean, what are some of the reactions that you've seen from people? How do they interact with each other? How do they take on the task? And what are some of the successes that you found along the way?

Firstly, people are just really happy to be invited.

Everyone in elected office thinks we're going to get the same frequent flyers that are knocking on their electorate office door who are there writing emails every other week.

The reality is the vast majority of the population never really engages with politics all that much.

You can see it in political party memberships.

I think there's fewer members of political parties than there are members of the Balmain Tigers, and that's not a compliment to the Balmain Tigers at all.

so when we look at that most people are just ecstatic to have received that invitation they can't believe they're actually going to be listened to and be heard we say we provide the best democratic opportunity available now of course in any group it's a mix there'll be a couple of people who think they can solve the whole issue by 11 o'clock on the first day there'll be other people who feel you know very odd trepidation about am i up to this am i capable of it and that's the point it's a mix when this works it's because the wider community sees someone with a background like them someone with a job like them some with their kind of life experience in that group of 50 and we're not always seeing that in our parliaments that are getting really really professionalized i think a really simple example of a project that's worked really nicely Some years ago, we got called in by the City of Melbourne, who had a budget balancing issue.

Now, if you were to implement this, what would be the trigger? If it was, as you said, a long-standing contentious issue, who would actually bring that about? Would it be the politicians or would it be some sort of mechanism where public opinion influenced it? How would you implement this system?