So talk about yourself and then w- how this extractive, uh, mining operation operates in Egypt, which is extraordinary.

Um, well, it's, it's, it's, uh, [laughs] it's quite pervasive.

That is, uh, Palestine, Palestine/anti-Zionism.

There is a question here if there is actually any distinction, um, uh, how, how much distinction actually is b- is between both.

There is, there is obviously, um, this-- there is some distinction, um, but the, the... a lot of the content of Palestine as a word symbol, um, is, is that negationist impulse, um, uh, that is entirely directed and concretized in Israel and Zionism.

Um, it's central to Egyptian identity, sadly.

Now, Egypt, the entire Middle East is extremely complex place.

How? In what way?

Mm-hmm.

They just want this.

Um, so using, using the intellectual history is trying to explain how, um, modern political identities in the modern Middle East came to be shaped.

Um, thi- these were central to the national communities, um, and the nation states that obviously got established and played a fundamental role in how they perceive themselves and how they, the options that are open to them or foreclosed to them in pursuing various political ends, and that of course central to Israel.

That is, how a lot of these states who differ and disagree with each other on almost every question, I mean, he, uh, Mike said the whole cockpit of the, of, of, uh, power politics is absolutely true, and it should actually mystify, like it should make you astonished more about, well, why are they behaving this way? Why are they behaving as if they are all Arab brothers who are together engaged in the un- un- unifying struggle, um, u- struggle of unity against, against Israel? It's actually the answer of exactly what Mike said.

It's because there is no unity and because it's a brutal, selfish, um, a region of brutal, selfish, political selfishness.

Um, but in order to, uh, again, in order to understand how, how these conditions, uh, came to be, ideology and identity were, were central elements in forming, in forming the modern world.

What does the Middle East teach us about the Western condition and about us in America?

I mean, there's just, it's the list is, uh, is all of them basically.

Right.

No, the, it's, uh, uh, Kelly, Booker, uh, Gallego.

You have, you have, you have a dramatic...

You have some, some are really dramatic like Ro Khanna, who was like only five years ago gung ho pro-Israel, signing letters for APAC, and today it's a mistake, and this is very...

He's not just, you know, a military aid.

No, he's, he's straight, straight out anti-Zionist.

But nevertheless, tell us about this elite inter, you know, inter-elite war.