Can you tell me more about what these two events were and how did it come up?

Well, I grew up in the South, so we have vegetation, heavy vegetation around at all times, and so the birds would hardly ever be in sight.

So I began birding by ear very young.

It was a, a realm of nature that we hadn't had any programming on before.

So when I first became a naturalist with the nature center about five years ago, I started the Birding by Ear program.

I heard about Birdability's blind birder birdathon last year was their first iteration of the birdathon, and then they tried it again this year with even more support from around the world.

So it's a global operation now.

I'm also thinking like, how do you help people learn about birding by ear or how to remember stuff?