Mm.

And I was an enviro engineer, kind of on grad program, and lent in with her and tried to understand what this meant.

And I really picked up in early days that it's not a thing that sustainability people do to have good outcomes on either environmental impact, governance, social impact.

It's actually what everybody...

I know this sounds cliche 'cause this is, this is what a lot of functions need people to own and run with, but it's in everybody's power to make decisions with the money that they're spending, the materials that they're buying, or the activities that they're doing, decisions that go just beyond answering that scope.

Yeah.

But we're probably so busy we don't always stop, and ref- like, reflection's so important.

And I guess part of reflecting is knowing how you go and how you perform.