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That sounds good, talking about how critical Shanksville is.

I think that's...

One of the things I feel about it, as I've alluded to it, I think what happened was supposed to happen.

And I know Dave McGowan and Victor Thorne think that Flight 93 and Flight 77 were supposed to work in tandem to take out strategic targets, and that would have given them... that would have given them the excuse that they were confused, and that's why the towers were then subsequently hit.

But, again, given that Lee Perbaugh was obviously put there to see the crash, to me that tells me that that was supposed to supposedly crash right there in advance.

And I just have a feeling that things didn't go wrong, that it played out.

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And Herb, what about you as far as your take on all that is happening here?

I basically concur with Andy and I'm starting to think this is by design.

I'm becoming more and more skeptical of people that I trusted before and I think this is by design, but I just try to take, I figure if it's disinformation, still there's truth in there, so I try to take the truth that I can and discard the rest.

You have to look at it that way because I think Andy's right.

It's going to have to be more of a grassroots movement because it's just too easy to control the top.

One guy can't stand up against the government like that.

Even if he started out, It's just too much of a target.

I think, 100%

Yeah.

But I mean, I, I think the basic approach as far as the World Trade Centers is, of course, you know, you start with WTC7 and then you just show, I, I think you take David Ray Griffin's, um, why the official can't, the destruction of the towers, why the official story can't be true, and you just show it exhibit all the features of a controlled demolition.

You show gravity and fire can't account for any of them, and then you just hit them with the NIST report, which doesn't address the structural behavior after the conditions for collapse initiation were reached.

I think they, I, I, I don't think you can make that any simpler.

Then you have to deal with the psychological issues, of course.

But I mean, as far as just presenting the evidence, I found that's the way, like at work, I, you know, I test this out on a lot of people, and this one seems to be getting it more and more.

You just show them the NIST report as a pre-collapse theory, and hopefully I'm gonna have some links on deconstructing NIST.

And Andy, are you just concurring with him?

And apparently there's a lot of activity up there in central New York.

Okay, we've been trying to do a few things.

I'm always refining my presentation at work.

They're kind of my guinea pigs.

And there's another guy I work with who's been handing out some loose change videos.

And I'd say we're about, I would say over 50% at work, going by my little unscientific poll.

So, I mean, I'm working on that to get more and more people.

The website is utikins.911truth.blogspot.com. And, folks, do you want to mention anything about it, anything that you want people to go look in there for or what's coming up, or you want some participation? Go

And do you want to mention some of the topics that you did, in fact, speak about that you wanted to when we were off mic?

I think we pretty much covered the gamut, didn't we, Andy? I think we had even started with Chanksville, and we mentioned some of the work that you've done on it.

I tried to say, what do we know for sure? The no-plane crash in Chanksville.

We had mentioned New Baltimore and Indian Lake a little bit, and also finally got into the Pentagon a little bit.

and mentioned, again, the citizen investigation team.

And we even got a little bit into the video fakery and the no planes and mostly into the towers.

But I guess one of the points that we tried to emphasize was the Hegelian dialectic.

I haven't completely

are, man? So anyway, Herb, I think you wanted to say something before I rudely stepped on your head.

I was just kind of going to echo what you said about, it's not even so much that these guys present themselves as authorities, which they do sometimes.

They do write with, they do write, you know, they have that very authoritative way of writing and presenting the material.

Like even Cantor, when you first looked at it, I could see why someone, it seems thorough and it can be a little intimidating at first.

But you have to take a step back at some point, and you have to really analyze it.

And I did that with the cat herder piece, and I didn't really have to go very far.

In essence, if you look, when he was describing the plane, I remember I printed it out and I made notes.

Okay,

We got eight minutes left.

Okay, we're just talking about how...

Okay.

We were talking about how they don't lead with their best shots.

It seems to be what, um, the case with like David Ray Griffin, who was -- who we thought was unimpeachable at one point.

But to give you an example, um, I wrote a letter that I sent to Andy.

Andy's gonna put his, um, little particular spin on it or his way of saying things.

I mean, did it start up one way and end up another?