Can you just like sort of, um, explain, uh, how that sort of interacts or impacts the nuclear level?

Yeah.

Uh, so I'm a big fan of Robert Jervis', uh, work on, uh, perception and misperception in international relations.

And so of course, he passed away a bit, uh, too early.

And my-- I mean, I, I'm trying to, let's say, use, uh, his concepts and his framework, uh, in a new information age.

Um, and so it's, uh, it's very useful to refer to, you know, uh, psy- psy- political psychology and the sociology of organization to see, uh, indeed if the perception and the misperception.

And it's also very frustrating because in French, we do, we do not have a word for misperceptions.

Um, and yet the material impact, um, has been at least manageable to, to limited, right? How, how, how do you perceive that?

C- is there a space for countries that have that trust to cooperate a bit on, on working on these fail-safe matters in a way that doesn't affect their own strategic stability and so forth?

forth?Yeah, thank you for, for having me on this, uh, on this episode, especially to talk about fail-safe reviews.

Um, I fully agree with what has been said about the lack of trust, and we see even-- we see today, I mean, we are a couple of days away from the end of the NPT review conference that ended without any, uh, document of consensus.

Uh, it's the third conference, uh, in a row that ends without any consensus, and it shows that even on issue that are really core to, uh, nuclear security, to nuclear safety, and to risk reduction, uh, nuclear weapon states and, uh, signatories of the NPT, they cannot even agree on, like, small, uh, small details.

So we are, we are very in a, I think, a worrying, uh, period, uh, for, uh, nuclear security, nuclear safety, and, and trust.

Um, but as you said, I think there are some, uh, positive, uh, examples, uh, especially in the French, uh, UK relationship.

Um, you might know that, uh, now 15 years ago, France and the UK signed what we call the Toutatees, uh, Agreement.

Is there any point in, in failsafe reviews, Eloise?