And it's hard sometimes for people on the outside to look back and ask, how did this person decide that this is how they wanted to devote their life? What was it for you that gave you a sense of justice and fairness that has clearly motivated your career, but also that brought you into the law and later, obviously, into politics in the House of Lords to try and deliver that sense of justice?

I was brought up, I mean, rather like Mary McAleese and I was brought up by parents who really also felt that sense that you had a responsibility to other people.

And I saw my parents being very good people.

And so we were not well off.

We lived in the Glasgow tenements here and eventually my parents got a council house and stuff.

So we were not well off, but my parents were really good people.

And I lived that and I watched that and I watched my mother helping people where she would empty the cupboard and give people food because her husband was an alcoholic and he drunk all the money for the week to get the kids.

A television station can't because they are publishers.

People [scoffs] make jokes about bigamy, but it is a serious offense.

It's still a crime to marry someone if you're legally married to somebody else.

So you can still be prosecuted for it, although it's really pretty rare that it comes before the courts.

There was a little spike when we saw the beginning of genealogical sites, uh, online, and people could trace their family trees, and suddenly out of the woodwork came information to suggest that there had been bigamy within families, and so people crossly grassed up their granny for bigamy.

Helena Kennedy, in these circumstances today, would the evidence of Judith Phillips be allowed?

Well, the idea that she was being paid would've immediately contaminated her evidence, and one would've used it to say, "W- was money paid to the other person, the person who said that she had seen them in the bed and so on? Had she also been paid?" So once you have the introduction of money paying for evidence, then a jury is likely to be very, very s- suspicious of the truthfulness.

He used to say, "There's no evidence that cot deaths run in families, but there's plenty of evidence that child abuse does." By the time he gave evidence as an expert witness at Sally Clark's trial, he claimed to have found 81 cot deaths that were, in fact, murder

And he, um, said and said what other people thought, which was that one sudden infant death was a tragedy, um, that two was suspicious, but three, um, is murder until proved otherwise.

The assumption was that if there were, if there was more than one of these deaths in a family, that you were sort of basically looking at a woman who, who was, you know, b- having babies and then killing them

It's a staggering figure, and in the courtroom, it's taken on trust

There was a sort of tugging of the forelock to him, and of course, the defense also had an expert to call, but not an expert who had a knighthood and where the judge deferred to him and said, "Oh, Sir Roy, do you need a seat? Please, you know, make yourself comfortable." And there was that chatting as between men of a certain, uh, class background.

And so I think that there was a sort of, you know, bowing to the grandeur of Sir Roy