extremes in the same thing for women too men are we're seeing okay women are they're having their day in the sun and the glass ceilings are being shattered and so now we're seeing potentially that as a threat to traditional male roles now men might be shrinking back you know we see that in different social situations where a lot less men asking women out on dates because of that and also they don't want to be accused of sexual assault and so the answer to that is let's just turn it off turn off everything and of course there's a lot of women who don't like that and so here we are that both of these approaches can be damaging without proper context without proper perspective

From my perspective, ways that it might be damaging include typically an imbalance in power.

Whenever one spouse or one race or one gender tries to take power over the other and marginalize the other, there are going to be problems.

there are going to be wars.

There are going to be people who shrink and people who rise and take things that aren't theirs.

And in my research among women who had been sexually betrayed, most of them had probably the biological and the social scripts that taught them to be more submissive to their husbands, that taught them, even if they did have a big career, they come home, they take care of the children, they take care of all the household duties, they have dinner on the table at 7 o'clock for their husbands, and they're exhausted.

So exhaustion is one thing.

What is the best way, would you say, for them to start a conversation like this?