When you go, right, can you tell me what the impact is? I'd imagine sometimes that's really nerve wracking.

Yeah, it is and it isn't, right? And I kind of say this, I've got a million grassroots organisations on my shoulder now that I can just hear and they've all got 20 million different opinions.

Evaluation and measurement is a really hot topic.

so yes and no so actually community organizations are pretty fantastic at measuring outputs and measuring their impact it's not always done in a way that is like fits into a nice neat box that um health secretary or a commissioner is going to want but they can definitely demonstrate impact and it is so much more than qualitative and these are organizations that sometimes might have one paid member of staff so it's literally the person who's putting the bins out training the volunteers doing the evaluation and delivering services and i've been that person so kind of like it is literally do everything and sort the toilets out as well So these are amazing people doing brilliant work and actually are often great at doing this.

But also they're hugely pressured, right? So like with the Cancer Champions, we very deliberately wrapped evaluation around that.

And we love support and major programmes where we can help that kind of that insight.

And it's one of the reasons why we really encourage every health system to really think differently about their insight.

So tell us a little bit about what's going next.