So I'd love for you to say more about that, how the book came into being and how it's impacting people.

Absolutely.

Yeah.

So I kind of as a background, I've always been a writer.

So even before I started all of this work, I was doing all different types of writing, freelance writing, blogging, all of that good stuff.

And so it was a natural way for me to process a lot of things.

I'm one of those like crazy journalers that if something's going on, I, I go to my journal.

yeah thank you for saying that and also you know navigating political climates for many of us are challenging in many contexts particularly in the global north right now so again I don't know if there's anything you want to add about how you're navigating spaces at the moment

time,

especially when your kids are younger, that you actually have that time together.

And And so we were about 2000 miles away from home and he disappeared.

And I was so just terrified is the best word that I can come up with.

And when I finally was able to get him on the phone, he was crying and I was just so relieved to hear his voice.

And he was like, mom, I have got to tell you something.

And I was like, of course, you know, what's going on? What happened? And he's like, I'm gay.

Can you talk about that tender time and how it felt and what helped you as a parent get through it?

So let's just start with the background, right? How did you get to this point in your life where being an ally and teaching others how to be allies became your mission? Why is this important to you?

Oh, my goodness.

Well, there's a short answer and a long answer.

But the answer is my kids and the experience that we had with my oldest specifically when he came out.

He came out as gay about... almost 10 years ago and his coming out, we were completely blindsided.

We didn't know he's the oldest of four.

He was 16 at the time and we were just surprised.

But what are the things that we should or shouldn't say if we're caught, if we're completely caught off guard by this with somebody that we

He did not present in any way.

No.

He had, and what I know now, is that he was working so hard to appear a certain way, to present a certain way.

He is the oldest of four kids.

Um, you know, even though my husband and I, uh, you know, raised our kids very differently than the way we were raised, of course, you know, your kids are always aware of like generationally how, you know, grandparents, aunt and u- aunts and uncles believe and think, and that has a great deal to do with the way that they respond in the world.

And so that affected him a great deal.

So those first 18 months were really, really tough, and we were dealing with some very, very intense mental health struggles.

And she was carrying all this.

And so your husband sounds like he totally accepted it and was fine with it.

Yeah, he was.

He was...

You know, he had a lot of questions.

We both had a lot of questions and we both asked a lot of questions that we that now, you know, we should never have asked.

And now we know why we shouldn't have asked them.

But they were very knee jerk.

What kind of like spurred that in you?