You know, because you're a designer, a pretty well-known designer of gardens, and I've done my research here, why don't you let us know how you approach planting for like these different categories form layers color and texture you know if somebody wants to really get into this i mean what do you what do you suggest and and it's also like harvesting through the seasons too right i mean some stuff comes early some comes late and that's my biggest problem is like you know planting for

yeah absolutely that temporal part is really really can be quite challenging to get right and i think what's great also on that time element is that the elementals can really help fill that hungry gap period um that the traditional annual vegetables don't i think for us designing you know is really about trying to align with ecology and looking at natural plant communities and how they establish themselves and how they coexist and in their own communities and and then taking inspiration from that into design plant communities so i think the most important one that you just mentioned there beyond you know that artistic vision that creates the kind of vision for the flower colors and textures and what might that look like in your mind's eye and that can really help to kind of do mood boards and research online and looking at kind of inspirational plantings that you love and just seeing how those textures and colors come to life but I think so much of our time is spent on the layers, which you referenced.

And layers is the absolute critical way to start thinking in a much more ecologically inclined way.

So if we're looking at something, you know, if I strip it back to the basics of let's think about a prairie meadow.

where if we are forgetting about any shrubs or woody or materials then we could split it down into a basic three-layered system where you have your structural and emergent plants that just emerge up through everything else and they hold the form they give you the kind of bones of the garden real sense of legibility you then have your mid-layer and your seasonal hits which make up a much higher proportion of the planting and they are giving you your main visual impression at any one moment so your color waves your texture waves and hitting that temporal piece there so things that really are giving you that hit in in late spring to early summer and all the way through to another another sort of two or three waves that take you into into kind of early autumn And then finally, you've got your sort of low and ground cover, which is plants that, you know, they probably make up about 40, 50% of the planting, but they aren't vying for a huge amount of attention.

They're really just performing key ecological functions by knitting the soil together, preventing other weeds and plants that you don't want to come in from ingressing.

Of course, bringing edibility, wildlife value, and whatever else it might be that your goals are.

What would you recommend as like a good starting place for an edible ornamental besides chives or herbs? Is there something that works really well and can give you sort of a great success?

You know, how do you balance those three goals?

Yeah, definitely.

Well, I think, um, you know, I think there are I think hundreds that get mentioned in the book, but I then hone in on about, I think about 40 or so within the, within the plant section and, and go into detail in them, and then some make their way into the cooking section of how, you know, it's not recipe, it's not a recipe book, but definitely gives you, you know, practical advice on how to approach this.

But I think for me that, that health element is really important because, you know, we know so much now, more at least than we did a few years ago, about the gut microbiome and diversity is king in your diet.

Um, and I think elementals, you know, give you that opportunity to have diversity.

And also, you know, a lot of them you, I guess you could class as sort of more wild foods as such, and those sort of wild foods typically are higher in polyphenols or the kind of good chemicals in plants that just help to feed your gut.

So, um, and I think with those polyphenols does come, you know, often some more unique flavors as well.

And that's my biggest problem is like, you know, planting for-

Like, for instance, the Eden Project, that just went from basically a desert to a fantastic garden.

We actually just completed a wonderful show garden with RHS Chelsea Flower Show with the Eden Project.

this year in 2026 and that garden was also full of edimentals and you know a space that is going to be relocated to the new Eden project in the northwest of the UK yeah I think working with Eden is fantastic and I thought it'd be great to include them as a case study in my book ultimately that that for me was one of the key journeys I went on with this book is that that it started with this idea of edimentals and how to get it out there and really ending in this sort of journey of me learning so much about the importance of, you know, food as a gateway to nature connection.

And of course, how much, as, as both of us have said, we really need that nature connection in our modern lives.

And Eden is an amazing organization that what was, you know, what like a, basically a crater of a volcano.

I mean, it was, an old disused quarry pit it just had devoid of life and then they just turned it into an absolute oasis and have done such incredible things both for plants the planet and the people who engage with it but also the local economy and i think it just shows the power of um of regeneration that nature can bring to all parts of our lives and And a huge, huge part of their story has also been advocating for food growing and what does sustainable food look like.

Case studies from all around the world, from Stephen Barstow, who came up with the term edimentals and has grown thousands of different types of edible plants in his garden in Norway, which of course has quite extreme benefits.

So how do you go about that? Like, how do you select plants that can adapt to these changing conditions?

So maybe could you walk us through design and things like layers and color and texture? What do you teach about those?

Absolutely.

Well, it's, uh, it's -- We could probably do a whole series just on it, so I'll, I'll try and, I'll try and be succinct and, you know, we do walk-- I do walk through step by step my, my design process, which is rooted in ecological principles that basically brings our planting and our gardens closer to how natural systems work.

And ultimately that creates something that's much lower in management, less intensive and, and also is more evocative of a natural environment.

And I think for me, the, you know, the idea of bringing food and beauty together is just something that I've always done, literally since a child, because I had two grandmothers who were really into gardening.

Um, and on one side she absolutely loved ornamental gardens.

That was it.

What would you say? Two or three little things that are a starting point to get going.

Tell me a little bit about the, the concept, and maybe we'll talk more to Alex about the, the amazing structure.

Yeah, I think it's really, really good observation.

It's something that we wanted to do here is make it feel much more open.

We really wanted to embrace the open space because this is launching the new Eden Project in Morecambe-

Mm

... asphodel lines, and then just offsetting that with, you know, that kind of contrast with some blues.

So these anchusas that work their way through the space just bring some height and, and really unusual to have a pure blue, of course-

Right

... you know, h- basically s- created sort of guides that would get children into food growing and, um, everything from growing on to, you know, obviously cooking and eating.

So it, it was just a perfect opportunity, and we created a show garden that was, that was over 80% edible.

But I think the real twist for me was, you know, Chelsea Flower Show, of course, is, is a, is a place for, for, for design and to really have a design-led space that tells a story.

And whilst I'm a very keen annual grower, of course, very much to defer to the expertise of someone like yourself.

But, um, it's, it's definitely something that's in my blood.

I think the, the sort of perennial route felt more appropriate for a show garden.

Are you-- Is there one that you're aware of? And if not, what prompted you to wanna go ahead and write this type of book?