And if you're not going to follow that model, then you're not going to be welcomed back.

Well, certainly on the judgmental side, that's true.

But you know what's interesting? All of us have a different approach to vulnerability at different schedules, right? We knew that we needed to be ultra vulnerable early to set the stage to lead the exercises.

But you know, it's typically in any room, especially with men and sometimes even more successful men or guarded or have had some sordid past that they don't want to talk about.

It might have taken like the second or even third visit with a quiet guy who was just absorbing everything.

All of a sudden, he comes out with this like, Whoa, story.

And everybody's crying.

But I think apart from that, I could see it doing very well.

So what are the pillars and why do they matter?

You know, it's interesting.

We didn't expect it to be so obvious when we first started writing this book.

You ask a bunch of dads about their fatherhood, their childhood, what they learned from their own father, how they actually used that to create an intentional experience with their own children, or not at all, they just winged it and kind of they got what they got.

You know, th- these seven themes that keep popping up, J.D., is, is really interesting and, and I'll sh- I'll sta- share them from top to bottom.

We then organized all of these interviews, which you could read.

Uh, they're, they're basically snippeted into two pages for our attention deficit world [laughs] who wants to just read this really fast.

onto you the most memorable insight from these fathers?

Like, I'm doing this for the greater good, right? How do you – did you ever find yourself falling into that

trap? How do you balance that? All the time.

And to be perfectly clear, you know, Derek and I didn't come with all the answers.

And I would say even after interviewing 100-plus guys – You know, we've learned, you know, they're competing arguments that we put in the book.

And I want to share with everybody that it was not our goal in this book when we asked Richard to be part of it.

And he said he would do the foreword, which he did.

It was not to basically create a, I told you so, this is what you should do, and we're going to shoot all over you.

Like maybe the journey has already, and these are all just like icing on the cake after this.