So I wonder how the varying time horizons might affect the actual ideas that you find investable themselves.

Yeah.

We, we have a, a long time horizon for our investments, and I think in many cases it takes a long time to build something really valuable.

We think of investing in blockchain and crypto projects no differently than investing in other categories from kind of a venture capital perspective.

We want to work with the, the best teams and, and people over, over a very long time horizon, be that five, 10, 20 years.

One idiosyncrasy of crypto market structure is that if you launch a publicly tradable asset, sometimes there's a very high valuation for that, you know, publicly tradable asset.

And there's, you know, some, some question as to whether that's good or bad.

Are so interested in?

Mm-hmm.

And, you know, this is...

this kind of changes the paradigm a lot.

So I, I think for the first time, like, it's easier to think about token spend, uh, more like headcount, right, where, uh, an engineering organization can scale headcount.

You know, uh, assuming you have, like, unlimited capital, you can continue to scale headcount, and barring any organizational inefficiencies, you can just keep, uh, keep, keep scaling that and get more work done.

Then you have to, you know, answer the question of how much work to do is valuable, right? For, like, our given business units, like, you know, where can we alloc- allocate resources to actually increase revenue? This was not the way we used to think about it, but now it is absolutely the way we think about it.

So, you know, we see, you know, for the first time, like, I, I, you know, talk to my team about how much, uh, they spend on tokens, and every once in a while I, I hear, you know, on some given week where there was some, some heavy work being done, and I go, "Ooh, that, that could cause a problem." I had never been put in that situation before.

Yeah, how do, how do you square-

For people who don't know what's going on there, these double pledging incidents, maybe you can give some explication.

Yes.

Uh, so if you wanna lend against an asset as a lender, there, there's a whole process where you go through UCC filings, and they're called perfection, where you can say, "I own this asset, and I'm pledging this asset as collateral against a specific loan." It's obviously a challenge to make sure that a specific asset has not been pledged multiple times.

[chuckles] And there are a number of, you know, I would say, good ways that that happens in the existing world.

And then I think more as a result of duration mismatch than, you know, th-these double pledging instances, there have been some significant redemptions from or requested redemptions, let's say, from private credit funds.

And you know, that, that's a, a different topic more broadly.

You know, we're very focused on, on chain [chuckles] and in the crypto products, but I, I think there are a number of secular trends that are pushing people towards a real interest in, in credit on chain, and that has had a lot of positive knock-on effects just in terms of the quality of talent and founder that we see coming to crypto and the willingness of traditional players to adopt on-chain solutions.

When you had your ear to the ground, what were you hearing from people? What are they most interested in? What resonated amid this fundraise?