So how have you been using it or things like AI?

Yeah, in many different ways.

So one of the things we do, we really want to make the creative process as human as possible for just the great ideas, the generation.

So we use AI in a couple of ways.

One is that we use it for the grind in terms of the front end and the back end so that actually in the center, the idea generation remains as pure as possible.

And actually what we find is we can allow more time there because of the AI tools that help us generate some of our insights, some of our outputs as well at either end.

We're also using the AI tools that some of our clients have now.

So if not growth, how would you measure success in 10 years, for example? What do you hope the business looks like?