So that's always been a challenge.

Yeah, it has.

Like, I mean, it's, it's, it's a challenging event to put on.

I mean, the logistics of getting everything out there, people, you know, gear, artists, peop- flying people in and out.

It's, it's so remote, and every aspect of the event is, is harder and more costly and more challenging due, due to the remote stuff.

It doesn't take very much to, to go awry before something's not working.

And, uh, you know, it's not like you're in Sydney, you just duck down to Bunnings and get yourself whatever you need.

Mm.

So that's always been a challenge.

Yeah, it has.

Like, I mean, it's a challenging event to put on.

I mean, the logistics of getting everything out there, people, you know, gear, artists, flying people in and out.

It's so remote and every aspect of the event is harder and more costly and more challenging due to the remote stuff.

It doesn't take... very much to go awry before something's not working.

And, you know, it's not like you're in Sydney and you just duck down to Bunnings and get yourself whatever you need.

That's going to be a massive event in more ways than one now, isn't it? Because it'll be the last big red bash in Birdsville.

It must be quite special knowing that, you know, you've created something that's done so much for Australian musos too, 'cause it- it's tough out there at the moment for, for musicians in Aus.

Yeah, it is.

Like, and, and that's one of the things that sort of really, you know, really is a disappointing part of it because, you know, it's, it's, it's something, you know, that gives the benefits to the artists.

It's, it's a stage they love playing on.

And for that not to be there, um, you know, that, that really weighs on, on us.

Um, you know, as does the fact that, you know, the, the tourism benefits that the event brings to the wider outback.

You know, so many people, so many millions of dollars get spent in the outback.

Yeah, yeah

Yeah.

Well, it was my full-time job by then, and you know, luckily I've got, you know, two of my, two of my k- I won't say they're kids, they're adult, adult children, are now in the business.

Uh, Steve, my youngest son with type one, and also my daughter Laura.

They've been sort of working in the business the whole time with us, and you know, so it's great to have sort of that family, family business way of working.

And w- w- we just thought after, you know, particularly after 2016 where we sold out Big Red Bash for the first time, we knew what we were doing was really different, but it was really popular and we thought, well, you know, if we're gonna build on this, we need to find another venue to also take this sort of model and concept to, to the people, but in a more accessible way.

So all of those people with caravans or motor homes that don't really wanna hit the dirt roads to get the whole way to Birdsville, they can come and enjoy the same sort of festival, the same atmosphere, the same beautiful outback setting, but in a, in a place that's a bit more accessible and easier to get to.

And that's where Mundi Mundi came from.

What are the, um, other changes and challenges you might have experienced in the last 12 years?