And in your new book, Grace Now, Marc Jacobs says, "She will fight for an image until she's gone as far as she can." And what is going as far as you can? What does that entail?

Well, I think in, in, in, uh, in, uh, Marc Jacobs', um, thing that he's talking about is we, we did a shoot together for Vogue, and he was the guest editor-in-chief for that issue.

And, um, I had shown all the clothes to Anna beforehand, and she said, "Yes, yes, yes.

These are all lovely.

Um, just, you know, please don't photograph the bikini," which actually was yellow with spots on it.

And I, of course, that's like red rag to a bull.

Yeah

... uh, you know, A, where it's going to be, B, how long it's, you know, it's gonna take to do the picture, and C, what they're going to wear and how their hair and makeup is.

[laughs]

[laughs] Yeah, no, she definitely is, and she's a good friend, too.

Well, I met her because I think I was sitting at Vogue one day and the phone went, and it was Steven Meisel's studio, and, and called me, and they said, "Steven's got this new girl, and she's, you're just gonna love her.

And we're gonna send you, as soon as we've finished this shoot, we're going to send her over to you to meet her, and you're gonna fall in love." And they were right, you know.

And I met her and, and Steven had just started working with her, and I think he cropped her hair off in that little bob-

Mm-hmm

... and it's very strong.

But there's a lot of houses that, you know, like Valentino and Saint Laurent and so on and so on, that it, it's kind of, in a way, it's lost.