They're different, but around these topics.

Well, first of all, I think that, sadly, it's a failure in the U.S. left not to popularize the term settler colonialism because, obviously, that's the project that has unfolded in North America.

I mean, it's a classic case of settler colonialism.

But instead, I think too many of our friends on the left, they've really fallen for the propaganda line that you had this grand revolution and In 1776, admittedly incomplete, which is like calling apartheid incomplete because they didn't extend rights to the Africans.

You could see apartheid as an incomplete reform.

I mean, it's really ludicrous.

And so what I'm trying to do in some of this works on slavery is really to expose that canard.

in that context? How does that evolve? What is that in response to, and how does that work?

But to your mind, Dr. Horne, in this moment, what does radical resistance on our part look like?

let's take one example amongst many i mentioned the haitian revolution 1791 to 1804 that rare global event where the oppressed and exploited rise up as one and take power from the oppressors and the exploiters that leads to a general crisis of the entire slave system in the americas including in the united states of america having a catalytic impact on the abolition of slavery in the United States in the 1860s.

But now you see that the Trump regime is in the process of expelling thousands, thousands, thousands of Haitians, removing temporary protective status.

They're on the run, some trying to get into Canada, some still in Springfield, Ohio, where they have to have the indignity of traveling around the town with an ankle monitor, for example, radical resistance, it seems to me minimally would involve paying our historical debt.

to our Haitian brothers and sisters who are now being terribly exploited and oppressed.

In fact, there are stories, as you've probably seen, about immigrants, including Haitians, being sent to parts of Africa, being sent to South Sudan, which is in the throes of civil unrest, being sent to the last remaining monarchy on the African continent, speaking of the former Swaziland, East Swatini.

Once again, radical resistance, if it means anything in 2026, must mean solidarity with our Haitian brothers and

On the domestic front, and there are so many issues we could point to, but what does radical resistance look like for you in this moment on the domestic agenda that we are being, frankly, pilloried by?

I want you to frame the hour, and then I'll get in where I fit in.

Well, it comes out of California, interestingly enough.

That is to say, there are those in our audience who may recall that in the 1970s in particular, there was a radical movement in the prisons symbolized by George Jackson, who was killed under suspicious circumstances precisely in the 1970s that led directly to the Attica Revolt.

a few days later in upstate New York, where a number of individuals, including prisoners, were killed.

And that moment helped to inspire Black August, because stepping back for a second, we recognize that, coincidentally enough, August has been the time when many transformative events in the Black world have taken place.

I think of the Haitian Revolution, August 1791, I think of the Watts Revolt in Los Angeles, which had a catalytic impact on the Black community ideologically going forward.

August 1965, I think of the Nat Turner Revolt of the enslaved in Southampton, Virginia.

Unpack it for me.

So I'll take those two questions and I'll listen to the one I may want to respond.

There's no doubt that we are in the midst of a new red scare.

Recall what Mr. Trump said during his July 4th remarks.

There is this plan afoot.

to destabilize the DSA, but recall that what happened in the 40s and the 50s was there was a successful attempt to connect domestic socialists to the Soviet Union and the United States had basically muddied up the Soviet Union and any sort of association with the Soviet Union then brought downfall.

Look at what happened to Paul Robeson, for example.

the tallest tree in our farm when he was associated with the Soviet Union.

The Sixers, Dr. Horne, your thoughts on the Sixers? If they don't win the title, if they don't win the NBA championship this season, would that be considered a failure with the talent they have? They're really stacked.

What can you share with us about the xenophobia in South Africa?

Well, I think largely it's a product of the changing international situation.

That is to say that as South Africa was entering independence in 1994, it was not disconnected from the fact that their major allies, speaking of the African National Congress, their major ally, the Soviet Union, was collapsing.

And so therefore, the European minority had the whip hand, and they were able to negotiate an agreement that threw roadblocks in the way of redistributing the wealth.

As a result, you see that that has had knock-on effects throughout the sub-region.

It's not accidental that Mozambican workers in particular have been targeted by the xenophobes.

That's point number one.

Horne.

Yes

... who put forward as a sort of leader of the country, even though his, his do- domain was generally on the Indian Ocean coast.

And then that leads me to another unfortunate aspect, which is that you may recall that after Nelson Mandela served one term from 1994 to 2000, he was replaced by his deputy, Thabo Mbeki, and then because of internal machinations within the ruling party, the African National Congress, he was supplanted by Jacob Zuma, who happens to have emerged from KwaZulu-Natal.

And rightly or wrongly, Jacob Zuma is castigated and blamed for a number of the many problems that the ANC has had since he came to office.

Not only so-called state capture, where Mr. Zuma was able to place many of his cronies in state agencies who then systematically looted the nation.

I need not go into some of the personal issues of Mr. Zuma.

For example, his being accused of rape of the daughter of a comrade, and in order to become acquitted, his supporters engaged in what might be called a euphemistically an unfortunate, uh, campaign against the victim.

Yes

So my initial thoughts are that this is a sort of continuation, whilst also understanding that this is a particularly grotesque manifestation thereof.

I would only add that in some ways, the event of June 14th had echoes and vibrations of the decline of the Roman Empire.

That is to say, it was not coincidental in my estimation.

that as these bouts were unfolding, Mr. Trump was putting an electronic signature to the Memorandum of Understanding with the Islamic Republic of Iran, basically signifying yet another staggering defeat for U.S. imperialism.

And then it was followed by this gladiator-type battle between once again, echoes and vibrations of late-stage Roman Empire, with credible rumors and scuttlebutt floating in the ether that perhaps the bouts were fixed, that this may have been another example of what Mr. Trump specializes in, which is insider trading and market manipulation, reputedly a member of the Trump family, asked for confirmation or denial of this allegation that the bouts were fixed.

Apparently, he wanted to get in on the action, so to speak.

And then, to cap it all off, the fighters were paid in crypto.

But yeah, there was a couple of matches where I thought there was kind of like some hints of the Great White Hope stuff.

Okay.

So the so-called Glorious Revolution of 1688, 1689 in England...

in many ways, is a revolt by the merchant class against the monarch, not least because in 1672, the monarch had established the Royal African Company, which was an attempt to add a system to the sort of inchoate process of ensnaring and enslaving Africans in particular.

The merchant class wanted to elbow in to this lucrative process, which helped to bring eye-watering, eye-popping profits.

Sometimes you could invest $1 and get $1,700 back.

And with that kind of profit, you had some who might sell their firstborn in order to enter that dirty business, not to mention some African they didn't know.

And so in fundamentally the so-called Glorious Revolution, which clipped the wings of the monarch, at root and in essence was about a naked grab for filthy lucre.

And is it a real break or, you know, how does Christianity in some ways contribute to a kind of construction of whiteness?

Dr. Horn, I'm wondering, are we going to have a U.S.? Will the U.S., as we know it, continue to exist?

Well, I'm glad you brought up the World Cup, because I happened to watch a good deal of the game last night between the United States and Bosnia-Herzegovina, and the contradictions arose there, because the referees, on a very spurious basis, ousted altogether this black man on the u.s team and of course the bosnian team was heavily melanin deficient for example and i have to say that i've looked at that very suspiciously because what's happening right now is we well know that the rulers and their acolytes they're against diversity except when it comes to sports you can as a basketball player you can make a million dollars as a freshman at USC, for example, shooting the ball through the hoop, not to mention on the football team.

And so that was the contradiction of the World Cup last night.

That is to say that the referee apparently was operating on U.S. principles, not realizing that there's a carve out when it comes to sports where we're supposed to be subject to equality and diversity is OK.

Congressional

Black Caucus, one an Ethiopian American, the other an Eritrean American.

That is significant and profound and probably has consequences for U.S. policy in the Horn of Africa.

Not to mention what happened, as you know more than most, in New York City with the ouster of the head of Congressional Hispanic Caucus, who, by the way, some of his acolytes were running this heavily anti-Haitian campaign, suggesting that his opponent was Haitian.

Do you think that there was any truly egalitarian potential in those movements, or were they always going to be corrupted by the wages of whiteness? Um, and as such, were they always gonna be destined to be the basis of something like the Jacksonian democracy that would go on to absorb them?

Well, I won't necessarily use the term destined, but I will not dispute that term as well.

[laughs] But once again, in terms of connecting the past and the present, I mean, I think one of the reasons we study history, we study the past so we can understand the present.

And if you're trying to understand how 77 million people voted for Donald J. Trump in 2024, it does little good to say that in a country of 330 million, that that was all due to the 1%, because the numbers don't add up.

That is to say that it's apparent that Mr. Trump had a kind of working class base and a kind of middle class base with regard to the descendants of the original settlers.

And that brings me to the other point, which is that I find it ironic nowadays that oftentimes our friends on the left, in particular, when they seek to understand what's happening in historic Palestine, they invoke the term, uh, settler colonialism.

But they don't necessarily invoke that term with regard to North America, for example.

Can you detail why the Texas Revolution, why it was a counter-revolutionary effort, and what ramifications extended far past its admission as a state in the Union?

With all the turmoil that's going on, is it all China's supposed to come to the White House? How do you see that playing out?

Well, Mr. Trump has been taking a soft line with regard to China of late.

I think it stems from what happened at the meeting with President Xi Jinping of China in South Korea in the fall of 2025 when China threatened to curtail the export of rare earth minerals to the U.S. economy, which would have hindered and hampered the U.S. automobile industry, not to mention other major U.S. manufacturers.

And so Mr. Trump has been taking a soft ride.

You saw that with Secretary of War Pete Hexler at a recent meeting in Singapore, where he barely mentioned the People's Republic of China.

And so I think that it's possible to suggest that China has leverage over the United States and the U.S. economy, which is one of the reasons why Mr. Trump has been taking such a hard line in this hemisphere, because the United States realizes that China has about three or four times the population of the United States of America.

And if the United States is to compete, the White House feels it needs to bulk up.

17 away from the top there kevin's checking in from houston he's online too grand rising kevin you're on with dr horn

So, Dr. Wharton, starting off here, I wanted to get your thoughts on some of this programming and, you know, were you to have a go at programming some vital teachings for the U.S.'s 250th? What might you be highlighting that's missing?

Well, in the first instance, I would highlight indigenous dispossession.

That is to say, before the arrival of the interlopers, dare I say invaders, in the late 16th century in what they called North Carolina, this land was populated from the Atlantic to the Pacific by various indigenous polities.

With the arrival of the settlers, their polities were overthrown.

And then I would highlight the fact that many historians agree on, even the most patriotic US historians acknowledge that more Africans fought against George Washington to fought alongside George Washington.

And in any case, initially, the George Washington-led forces, they didn't want any Negroes to be in their ranks, but as they found themselves losing battles, they did a 180 to a certain degree.

And I think particularly with regard to the Black population, the fact that our ancestors fought disproportionately against the establishment of the Republic helps to shed light on why Black people today are treated so horribly and atrociously.

And obviously that is a far greater example of freedom than a bunch of slave owning aristocrats signing a document saying that they'd prefer not to have a king.

Professor Horn expressed concern about the recent redistricting efforts here in the U.S., reflecting what he says are historical efforts to weaken the minority vote.

Recall that it was just a few decades ago that in the state of Louisiana, in the deep south, a former slave state, that a Nazi, David Duke, received 55% of the so-called white vote.

That took a massive turnout from the black community to make sure a Nazi did not become governor of Louisiana.

I dare say that with the gutting of the Voting Rights Act of 1965, you'll see other such results emerging from Dixie.

Explain, if you can, for our international audience, Professor, how redistricting has been used to weaken minority political power here in the United States.

Well, first of all, you need to understand the historical backdrop.

historical backdrop being that until 1965, fundamentally in the South, Black people did not have the right to vote.

They tried to register.