Could that have been handled in retrospect differently in the negotiation of the 2011 deal? And do you think that had a role in modifying this approach somewhat in the current deal?

The commissioner discipline aspect was always more radioactive in the public eye than it was in the players' eyes.

And that was something that I couldn't quite figure out how to message appropriately.

So in other words, yes, of course, you mentioned the deflate gate thing.

When arguably the greatest player in NFL history is wrapped up in a...

in a situation like that where he's accused of something and then get suspended and doesn't have a due process.

I mean, yes, those issues are going to make headlines.

What differences did you see in working with these two leaders?

So do you think there are going to be any of those legacy media partners that might be on the outside looking in during those next rights negotiations? I'm talking about CBS, NBC, Fox, these companies that have been with the NFL for so long.

Well, you're starting to see a creep in from the streamers already, right? I mean, you just mentioned it.

YouTube's got a game.

Netflix had a game.

Amazon Prime has a Thursday night games.

So I think as we continue to progress in the world of people watching on mobile devices, in the world of people watching on their laptops, in the world of, you know, you can flip on a live sporting event wherever you are in the world, essentially.

You have to look at creative ways to maintain access to the product.

How much do you think the media situations for those leagues are going to factor into talks?

And I, I can't think of a time where there was any safety issue that the league flagged without union involvement.

Well, I'm sure those conversations have been taking place behind the scenes, and you, you may not have heard about them.

I may not have heard about them.

I can tell you that, going back to where we started this conversation, what is the strategy to try to implement change, and how are they going to be measured in terms of effectively driving that change? So, if this one play is a safety issue, I know what I would want to know if I was sitting, uh, on the, on the union side, or even on the NFL side.

What's the data to support it? How many injuries have there been per year? Can you even measure the type of injuries that happen on that particular play? How many times a year do they actually run that play? Um, so those are all things that I would want to know.

And then the second tier from that is, if it's not a collectively bargained issue, if it is a competition committee issue, are players being invited to the conversation? What input are they having on that particular, uh, discussion? We know that coaches and GMs, um, and even owners have their opinions about that one play, but how much input do players have? And that was something from my experience in 15 years at the Players Association, was always a, a push-and-pull struggle, right? Was, are we at the table? Do we have a voice? Can we express ourselves? And we saw that with the hip drop tackle, right? Where players did express themselves, and despite all that, um, despite their protestations and their push and having a seat at the table, it still got voted the other way.

So, there's this interesting balance, I think, Mike, that you're describing of, where can not just the union, but the players in the league and the coaches and the GMs in this context come together and collaborate to make these rules not just make sense from a health and safety standpoint, but as a viewer of the game? You want to watch the game and not have 75 replays and, and, you know, have questionable decisions or have questions about how things are going to go.

Yes.