Yeah.

Yeah, you, you have your initial sketch, your thumbnail sketches.

Um, and then what we typically do, some people like to refine them a little bit further, um, to, to get like a visual what the concept looks like.

But we tend to go in and, and let the, the 3D become the truth of the sketch-

Yeah

... 'cause, you know, we got beat down for a number of years.

And you know how it is when you go from like, you know, from place to place and the different systems that you try to fit in.

Uh, introducing Gravity Sketch, it had reignited my fire for design overall, like it, it made me more excited about actually the process.

Got you, got you.

A lot smaller.

But I got kinda, like, uh, wrapped up in the whole product design aspect of it, so I ended up working at a company called New, uh, Item New Products Development.

[laughs]

So, uh, uh, another Jeff D. story.

So, um, I had been at GBMI for, like, maybe a year or two.

I'm not sure what it was.

And I, and I had designed a shoe ...