Gavin has worked in carbon reporting for over 20 years, and he thinks that the complexity of the space is hurting its progress.

We absolutely have, I'd say, a crisis in carbon reporting because the era where it was fairly straightforward to know what to do if you're burning lots of fossil fuels, just replace them with renewables, you know, we're still on that journey.

But we're getting to the point now where the financial sector is saying, How much difference is it making? Can we trust the data? Is it high enough quality? Can we compare apples and apples with these standards? And the answer to that up until now is not very easily.

It's very straightforward to use the greenhouse gas protocol aligned with one of the global reporting standards to create wildly different results.

So if you want your carbon footprint to be X, I can probably show you how you can make it 2X or half X.

And even when you're getting quite good data in, the number of ways you can change the outputs, it leads to a lack of trust and transparency in the mix.

When we come to how does this then interface with a financial ecosystem, which does get forensic, it is regulated, and it does want trustworthy, quality, comparable data.

What do you think will happen in terms of this over the next, pick your time period, you know, a year, five years?