And I know you did the same thing, Hollywood Dracula, but I want to talk about your mockumentaries because what is chair and what was it like working with Rue McClanahan on

Wit's End? Oh, thanks very much.

Yeah, I guess most of my films have been documentary.

I mean, in my 20s, I did anything to make, you know, make a buck.

I mean, so I was directing TV commercials, industrial films, you know, JetBlue, all kinds of Patagonia, all kinds of companies, you know, everything and anything.

Most of the time I've done documentaries, but I love fiction.

One of my recent books is about Martin Scorsese.

almost

So before Bram's Count became the template, what did vampire actually mean to an early film audience? Were audiences already carrying around a supernatural image of a vampire? Or was the word being used differently?

Well, this is fascinating, I think.

There was a journalist in 1919 that actually said the word vampire is among the most abused terms in the English language.

And that's because it had three meanings, not just one or two, but three meanings.

The 19th century, even as early as the 1820s, I find stage plays and literature that used the term vampire in a metaphorical way, but in those cases as a thief.

Thieves ranging from everyday crooks or international crime gangs to perhaps just a pirate.

So thieves, somebody feeding off of the wealth, the goods of another person.

Orlok's death, I mean, spoiler, right?

You're dealing with something a little bit more broad than that, even.

Yes, it's neither of the two, as you rightly say.

It's neither of the two, the Mondo films of the 60s or, and I remember growing up with them in the early days of home video rental store, you know, the Faces of Death, the shockumentaries of the, certainly by the mid 80s, we would rent sometimes, some of us on home video.

The weirdumentary, I think there's a few characteristics of it, but one thing we can say, just given your wonderful parameters there of those two other genres, it comes between them historically.

As you read the title, you know, we are talking about the 1970s.

The films I'm talking about, and many of them, fascinatingly, were actually theatrically released, many of them to great success.

So these aren't just on a home videotape.

wasn't, this was during a time when you weren't necessarily getting, I mean, it was harder to get stuff on VHS that early into...

What was their approach to distribution?

Yeah.

Yeah, it's fascinating.

It's kind of like so many elements of that era, the 70s, you know.

Their approach has not really lasted much beyond them.

It was fascinating what they did.

They were based in Utah.

Thank you for that.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Well, you know, this goes back to me.

And, you know, at times I'm doing very egghead academic peer reviewed stuff that probably only a small number of scholars read.

And then sometimes I'm writing for, you know, well, I've done things for USA Today and Washington Post and stuff.

So different audiences.

It is.