But were you surprised to hear a Haitian American actor speak in this way?

way?I, you know, I'm not surprised.

First of all, Joy, thank you for, for having us and me and, and of course for this incredible panel.

You know, I'm not surprised because we're living in 2026 and people say crazy things all the time.

Um, I'm like you, I did not know who this young man, this gentleman was before his controversy, and sometimes that's the point.

Um, obviously he was a big enough deal to get onto one of the larger platforms.

Cam Newton's podcast is a big podcast, for better or for worse.

Go ahead, Garrison.

It's weird.

weird.Yeah.

There is a, the, to your point, and, and you made this point a little bit earlier, it, it feels as though Christine, uh, Wells Wonsley, n- the mother of Nolan Wells, is absolutely on trial.

It, she can't...

You know, I've seen comments online, because she is, you know, a person I've had...

Again, I've met her and, and sat with her and her husband for an interview, and, you know, she seems like a, a really genuinely nice person.

The, the way that she describes Nolan as this kind of per- bubbly personality who wants to make you laugh and wants to have a good time, I can tell he got that from his mom.

Mm

But I think we should get into, like, everything that's swirling around online and what we actually know versus what we don't.

Yeah, that's a good point.

It's, it's a lot of conversation online right now.

The, you know, one of the things that I loved to see over the weekend was so many people just posting the name Nolan Wells.

Like, we are not letting this fade away.

That's right.

And I think that's so important, so I'm glad we're talking about it.

Um, audio engineer Johnetta Brantley, uh, did some engineering on a phone call that was made to Sea Tow by, uh, some of Nolan Wells' alleged friends.

Um, you know, Officer Tatum has been on a media tour attacking Christine Wansley, [laughs] and, and essentially saying she's the villain for refusing to accept the stories by the white friends, as if they're, they're the victims and she's the villain.

Yeah.

Yeah.

It is remarkable to see that, that kind of twisting happen.

Uh, you may have seen a clip of this social, you know, circulating around on social media where a reporter from the New York Post also asked a question that was very similar, like, "Was this just for money?" And there's this, this way in which Black parents, especially those who experience loss in this kind of way, are often looked at with skepticism, that, "Oh, you're just in this for fame or for money." And it's ridiculous.

It actually is just plainly ridiculous, Joy.

And I'm certain that all of those families on that stage yesterday would like nothing more than to wrap their arms around the young men that they've lost in their lives.

Do these parents fear that these so-called friends might sue them?

You know? Anyway.

Yeah, that's good advice.

I... you know, I'd say the... you know, we've... my, my wife and I, we've been married now for seven years.

Uh, and the thing that keeps us fresh, you know, and keeps us going is communication.

At the end of the day, you're gonna go through times where communication is, it needs a little tune-up, so do the tune-up.

Do the maintenance on the relationship.

That's necessary.

Discover the possibilities at brightviewseniorliving.com.

That's right.

100 years ago, we were thinking about building institutions.

We were thinking about building the infrastructure we needed so that 25, 30 years later we could get things like the Voting Rights Act, and we could advance civil rights in this country.

And that is really the point in this moment.

When we kinda tear down these organizations and these institutions, we are being incredibly shortsighted around what it takes to actually build political power.

We have to take that very seriously for ourselves, and I'm telling you, if you look at what Nancy Mace is doing, I can tell you so clearly, it's so clear she takes Black political power seriously

Mm-hmm.

And there's this sense that, that Democrats wanna look at Black voters as a, as a base to mobilize, but not necessarily a base to persuade.

process race and culture in the way that we did they are coming up in a very different era they're coming up in the social media age and that is changing the landscape it's changing how we relate to race to culture to politics are are you at all concerned that this whole issue of black folks being this reliable demographic for the democratic party which a lot of folks take issue with Are you concerned that that's that's shifting and that that may be affecting our political power and our pull and our ability to make certain demands, to set certain agendas within the Democratic Party? If that sense of loyalty to the Democratic Party is now shifting with this younger generation, as it seems to be a bit, are you concerned that that is now that now will have the impact of affecting our ability to to shift the conversation within the Democratic Party?

I am less concerned about that, Dara.

I know that there's a very real concern around some of the shifts you've seen, but some of that stuff is actually already, you know, the young people vote, more young people voted for Donald Trump in 2024 than had in many, many, many years for a Republican.

And so there was some real concerns like, oh my gosh, are we losing the young people? And I think we've already seen, there's data to suggest that we've already seen kind of a step back from the right wing agenda.

And I think people are seeing through it.

And you know who I think helps with that? I think a person like like, you know, Dottie Elisa via Chevalier in New York, obviously Mayor Zoram Amdani.

Like, I think these progressive figures are really helping to change the conversation in large part because I think what Americans want and I think young people are absolutely a part of this.

How do you see this playing out in the Democratic Party? Do you see the establishment Democrats as being capable? of rejecting this more left leaning and more radical influence within the party? Or do you see this potentially just diffusing the power of Democrats and potentially making them vulnerable, you know, in terms of their effectiveness and their ability to to win going forward?

Yeah.

Ari's great.

Um, and so is Pema.

And, and they've been talking about the fact that this is a court issue.

Like, like, the, you know, Alito's argument that the 15th Amendment effectively bans kind of race consciousness in remedies for voting discrim- voter discrimination, it basically means that any law that, that the, that Congress passes will then be subject to this new test, to this, to this kind of new interpretation of the Constitution.

And so in order to get around this, we actually need a new court, and, and, and this is what I, I, I fundamentally believe.

I'm not in the business of telling people exactly how to vote, but I, I can share my opinion.

Mm-hmm.

This is the first movie Garrison made.

And it's just about this kid, my little brother, who wanted to go get a midnight snack, but his mom, my mom, played by actress Carla Hayes, [laughs] who, no, no, she, of course, doesn't want him to go get a midnight snack.

Shouldn't be eating so late at night.

And he's, like, sneaking through the house, and she's also afraid that maybe it's a burglar.

And so she pulls a axe out from under her pillow.

[laughs] It's just, it's insane.

And yeah, I just really feel you on how, uh, how precious something like this is, and how wonderful it is that people endeavored to save it.

Yeah, I'm glad you told that story 'cause there is something very human about all of this.

I mean, uh, all of these things, if we don't wake up, Garrison's, uh, now in independent media, but if we don't wake up, I mean, just think about how the oligarchy's gonna control our ability to dissent.

You, you, you said something there, Bakari, that I think is important to, to kind of highlight, which is that w- it is in...

it has never been more important that you support independent media than this time right now.

We are living in a time...

And when I say independent media, I don't just mean, like, creators and people who are disseminating information that way, which I think is important.

I'm s- I'm talking about nonpartisan media, which they are actively trying to chip away at.

CBS is absolutely, uh, partisan these days.

Oh, okay.

Mm

...

I knew about Ma- I knew about the strip clubs and all this stuff, like, from very, very young.

And it's not to say that this is a place that was like, "M- I wanted to g-..." Uh, none of that.

But, but I knew about it, and it was a part of the culture, and it was certainly a part of the lore of the city.

I mean, everybody knows that when, you know, there's a, there's a hot record that's about to come out, they play it in Magic City first.

Like, we know that.

Pa-Pablo better watch his back around Adam Silver [laughing].

It, it, it definitely seemed... [laughs] I, I, I take your, your point that this was probably planned, and, and I do think that the viral moments help

helpProbably most with fundraising rather than maybe building the- the kind of necessary on the ground support that one needs to win.

Of course, we're seeing this kind of play out in- in races across the country where folks have had these big viral moments and- and there's a question mark around whether or not that will translate to actual votes.

We saw that with- with the elections in- in this, the, the Congress elections, uh, congressional elections in Illinois.

Um, but- but I- I am curious about...

Because there seems to be some real kind of, uh, disagreement around who is actually responsible.

I'm, I- I was checking out an article early, earlier that, you know, where Janiece, uh, Lewis George basically made the case that Kenyan McDuffie was also responsible for utility prices.

Go ahead, Garrison.

[chuckles]

... for Donald Trump.

This is something that targets a very specific... two very specific people.

Two very specific people have been depicted in a disgusting way, but in many ways, I think for, for the sensibilities of white America, this crosses, this potentially crosses a line that will likely be moved again.

But this is almost like an N-word kind of usage.

This is a thing that you can do all the kinds of racist things you wanna do.

You can remove Black history, you can reinstate the monuments of Albert Pike and other Confederates.

But you know what I'm saying, Garrison.

[laughing]

[laughing] Um, you know what? I was shocked.

I, and, and at the same time, there's something very, history doesn't repeat, but it often rhymes, about the times that we're living in.

Um, and, and, and kind of my mind immediately went to something that Nicole Carr wrote a year ago, almost, um, in 2025, about the way the Black press has always been in the crosshairs of authoritarian governments.

And, and so that was the one of the first things that kinda came to my mind.

Um, it is, as a member of the press, it is shocking to see someone, uh, cover an event and then be targeted for it, both you and Georgia and the others.

And so, uh, that was the first thing that came to my mind.

Mm

It could be both.

... just because it w- be- because it wasn't targeting her, and now she's like...

Uh, uh, I have a really hard time believing that this isn't some cynical play for what's next.

I, I, I have a hard time believing that even she earlier, uh, earlier or later in that interview she talks about the text message that, that Donald Trump sent to her regarding the, the kind of credible threat against her son.

She said it was disgusting and it was, it was, and you know, upset her and all this stuff, but she wouldn't say exactly what he said.

And, and it made me think of, of all of the people, I won't name names, all the people who have these really great scoops on what's happening in the government or the thing that happened behind the scenes and they wait until they release a book in order to kind of put that little bit of information in there to kind of sell books.

It reminded me a lot of that kind of play where it's like, let me tease you, I have this bit of information, and I have a hard time believing that Marjorie Taylor Greene isn't about to come out with a book or about to run for President or about to do something else and she is simply setting up her next move.

(coughs)

This is the first movie Garrison made.

And it's just about this kid, my little brother, who wanted to go get a midnight snack, but his mom, my mom, played by actress Carla Hayes, (laughs) who my mom... she, of course, doesn't want him to go get a midnight snack, shouldn't be eating so late at night, and he's, like, sneaking through the house, and she's also afraid that maybe it's a burglar, and so she pulls a ax out from under her pillow.

(laughs) It's just...

It's insane.

Um, yeah, I, there's, I'm adopted and there's a single video from the day I was adopted that my parents had on like a, my adoptive parents had on like a physical tape but it was a strange format, and anyway, they just threw the tape away because they didn't know that it could be adapted, and yeah, I just really feel you on how, uh, how precious something like this is and how wonderful it is that people endeavored to save it.

Yeah, I'm glad you told that story 'cause there is something very human about all of this.

I mean, I'm, I recorded this in a house where my parents had split up for, like, six or eight months, like one year, and, like, they'd kind of, like, gone their separate ways, and we moved to this house, this house.

And I kinda, to be honest with you, I forgot that I recorded this there.

(sniffs)

...

I think these things raise serious concerns.

A lot of people are talking about the Reddit posts.

A lot of people are talking about the tattoo.

Not as many people are talking about the Blackwater association.

The fact that he was, uh, employed by, uh, Prince's Blackwater, I forget what they changed, Costelas, or whatever they changed the name to.

(laughs)

And now, but then they want to bring in, "Well, what about over here?"

And, and now we're talking about gang violence and we're talking about, you know, like, like cr- crimes of passion, right? So like, like to help the audience really think about this, the Public Religion Research Institute actually released, um, uh, uh, they've been doing research on this over time, uh, looking at who is most comfortable, who actually answers the question, "Should we be engaging in political violence if it helps us reach our ends?" And what they found, time and time again, is that white Christian right wing people are com- are, are extremely comfortable with political violence.

They, they are almost in favor in some times, in some ways, in, uh, with, with political violence.

And so when you look at who's committing this political violence, uh, organization after organization, our own federal government came to the conclusion that right wing ideologies were predominating, uh, those that were, uh, planning and executing on political violence specifically.

And yet, you know, when, when these conversations are had, we end up talking about trans people.

You know, uh, our, our mutual friend, Don, um, um, Joshua Doss, who's phenomenal, we, I know we both are, are big fans, he talks about the, the kind of distraction game that i- that, that politics is all about, that it's like, "Hey, look over here." He, he, he, he communicates that so well, and I think it's important that we recognize that in these moments when we should be having a conversation about loneliness among young men specifically, when we should be talking about the ways that that right wing thinking is, is kind of getting to an extreme in a way that, that is leading to violence, we're talking about trans people.

And that distraction is, is, is serious.

What is he saying there? And this is the FBI.