And you said it doesn't usually come up in psychodynamic thinking.

Well, you know, yeah, I would say that what, w- the way I would put it, it, not so I say it doesn't come up, but it's not that and behavior, which are two of the key components of this type of approach, are not, don't tend to be targeted.

The idea is that we're gonna help you to understand what's going on inside, and that's going to help to make changes.

Whereas in this approach, it's sort of like, okay, here's the, here's the problem or difficulty that we're targeting.

You have this issue with behavior, and we're gonna try to build a formulation and understand it and talk about interventions to change it.

Similarly with relationships.

I mean, you know, if you take one type of not uncommon Case and, and think about, you know, formulation, uh, that let's say people with panic or anxiety disorder, part of our formulation, which we can talk about, is that they struggle with angry feelings and fantasies and, and they're worried about disrupting relationships.

Uh, I'm curious, like what, what from a, from a more trauma-focused psychodynamic psychotherapy, what kind of things can we learn about your approach or about the approach to trauma from this role play? Like, what were you doing? What were you thinking through in terms of this?