So how are you gonna give up your life, your independence to someone who maybe hadn't respected you in the past or you had issues with? And now you're like, "Oh, my gosh, they're gonna make a decision that could change my life? I, I don't trust them to do that." [laughs]

Well, you're absolutely right, Lucienne, and that goes both directions.

But sure, and I think that's something that we, we tend to not think enough about.

We, we tend to think, "Well, this person is aging and maybe has stopped making some really good decisions, or maybe, uh, is, is, is struggling with being able to make easy decisions, and so therefore we're going to discount everything this person says," and that's not fair either.

Uh, remember, uh, people do want their own agency.

They wanna be able to make their own decisions in life.

And I'll tell you, oftentimes as, as odd as it is, a- adults, adult parents, a- as we age, we sort of become like children again in a lot of ways.

I, there's no good answer here, Frank.

... of my friends and their parents, every single time they end up having such a richer life for it, Frank.

Well, y- you know, you're looking at this from a very pragmatic lens, and I think that's awesome if people can look through it from a very pragmatic lens.

But I think th- it, it, a lot of people can't yet.

Uh, there are lots of adults, grown adults, elderly adults, who have been very independent their whole lives, and it becomes a real fear as they recognize giving up that independence.

They've had this independence since they were 16.

Now they're 86 or older and thinking, "I, I don't wanna go backwards.

I don't wanna get to a place where, uh, maybe my life is no longer in my own control." A- and the stubbornness comes where they don't wanna give up recognizing that maybe they shouldn't be driving anymore.

Um, so how do we get there? How do we j- make them realize that?