Yeah.

Reduces worry.

When you zoom in on, what is it that I can do? What is it that is within my control, right? So that's important because it has been shown in some of my studies at GIBS.

We do an, an annual study, Bra Obs, called the GIBS October Health, um, Workplace Wellbeing Report that speaks to what you're talking about, that a sense of control is really associated with better mental health.

In other words, less worry, less anxiety, less stress.

Because it's almost like, let me focus on, on what I can control, even if it's little.

Maybe it's tracking my expenses, as an example.

Yeah.

good.

Part of it, you could go with them shopping and you help them explain no name brand as an example.

Look at a packet of washing powder.

Can you see per gram the prices differ between a 3kg and a 2kg? That also can be okay as part of helping them.

But research tells us, some of the research I do at GIFS, without a doubt, that your point around observing also is very true.

And in fact... is one of the most effective ways to learn.

Whether you are observing good things or bad things, right? They are inherited that way.

and I'm seeing how that kind of conversation starts a new conversation in the minds of our kids about money and I think that's the kind of thing that you're talking

Yeah.

He says, "What do you do there?" And then I said, "No, I've got a show." Eh, I had to quickly correct myself.

"I don't have a show." [laughs] I quickly, Bra Chris, I quickly corrected myself.

I said, "No, I don't have a show.

I am on the Aubrey Masango Show, and there's a slot called Financial Matters with Dr. Magwegwe." He said, "Really? Where can I listen?" I said, "Well, I'm sure you've got it in your radio.

Find 702." And then he found 702.

So Traiby, I've done my bit.

Yes.

And on, right? But I think that the soil is a magical place.

And so the way you really captured it, I think our listeners can really see where we are going with this.

To say the soil, and I love the idea of the seed, to really kind of get our listeners to visualize, in addition to listening to our voices here, to say, if you talk of that seed, you're planting it, perhaps.

And then we think of ourselves as human beings.

We're talking about we planted into families.

We planted into communities, right? And so how that family...

raises us up the caregiving the discussions that take place about life in general and of course finances are an important part of that right what is taught formally what is observed as you see them engaging with life and with money right That captures the idea of the soil, and you can see how important it is.

And I get a sense that it is one of those notions that is embedded in our soil collectively that if we took a little bit of time to step away from and just reflect and look at it, we'd find that there are practices in there that are underpinned by probably dangerous notions with regards to money.

That's the kind of thing we're talking about,

yeah? That's exactly.

And what a wonderful example because that one we can spend a bit of time on that to really unpack the the way these beliefs, and in certain instances, almost unconscious beliefs, right? So here, we've got lots and lots of discussions on many platforms about some people shortening it to man is the root of all evil, and as you quietly point out, then we have corrections that say, in fact, the scriptures say the love of man.

But everything The core of it, it illustrates to us the functions of silent or unconscious beliefs.

Firstly, about an individual's relationship with money, right? When you engage with that belief, what it does, it shapes your actions or your behavior.

towards money number one what I've also found about that belief is that often it also makes us and I'm going to use the term society it makes people somewhat suspicious of wealthy people sometimes even labeling them you know they are not kind they've cut corners to get to where they are they lack empathy you know almost like treating them with a bit of suspicion so there's a lot of behavior stereotyping that can come out of that and that is what we are asking our listeners to reflect on can you see the operations of a belief the day-to-day effects on financial behavior that stem from a belief Also building on that, Abra Hobbs, is the idea we talk a lot about on our show, that every end of the day, when we really sit and reflect on money, money is just a medium to transact.

It's just a tool.

that also bears with it certain lessons that we need to learn about our relationship with money.

Why? It's

a number of factors.

So I found very interesting.

If I answer your question to just give our listeners a little bit of context.

So this information, brahops, is based on data, is that the right word, right, of members who belong to various old mutual funds.

They run some of the biggest open retirement schemes in the country.

So this specific study is based on 500,000. people it's a big sample to just give our listeners context that really this is not asking people what they have they actually looked into account balances of men women and all the data that they have right so this is real data from old michelle what comes up is so fascinating If you look at the end, your question, why does things change? One, this report suggests, and I'm really looking forward to our women listeners to call and their partners to confirm, to share for us how they deal with that.

What does it mean for women who are at that interesting sweet spot between 25 and 41? And how can they better prepare for post-41? What does all of this mean, Doc? I think for me it

[laughs]

But I never thought I would come back there so quickly, as now [laughs] like it's my home, right? And so I just had this thing that I know how to look for work.

I will find a job quickly, and that was going to be my passport, right? In other words, I get work, I earn a salary, I find a place.

And I remember maybe a week or so after, um, going to or starting to call Park Station home, "Guys, I'm gonna be quickly out of here.

You know me.

I walk long distances looking for work.

Bez Valley, Gold Reef City, Rosebank." You know, kind of just with this energy.

And say, "Hey, today's my birthday"

... every detail, um, of what women go through financially, what does that tell us about gender roles in South Africa?

I think, you know, for me, Sia, as a, as a dad to two young adults, as I said earlier, 25, 22.

On one hand, it makes me sad, right? To say there we are, August, Women's Month, then I engage with, um, an example that I've shared, kind of the mindset of this gentleman who was in, in, in, in one of my classes, and then we get the data from Stats SA that is almost saying, you know, we're going back.

It really shows how gendered, you know, our society is, and the disadvantages and the barriers, yeah, that, um, women still experience in the workpl- And by the way, we also know from Stats SA that if you look at managers, yeah, middle-level managers, let alone moving in higher level, executive management, CEO, it's still predominantly men.

So if we have m- um, the mindset that says another pregnancy or a mindset that says, "Oh, you always doing this caregiving duties," and these are the captains of industry, these are the managers that are promoting, that are giving incentives, that are really kind of making decisions around the culture of an organization.

So it makes me sad in that regard that we seem to have or to making slower progress than what one would think of in 2026 when Stats SA comes with this.

That's on one hand, but I don't want to be a prophet of, of, of, you know, gloom and doom.

... fix those things in, in, in such an economy?

No, no, you can go on, Dr. Bagoy.

And, you know, Sia, I really love the fact that our listener, you know, he frames it as this is the experience of, and I agree with him from, you know, the financial well-being studies and some of the research that we see, that Many people really have their wall against the back.

It's difficult at the moment with finances.

Number one, I acknowledge that.

Number two, it's also the reality that once someone has a bad credit record, it's now difficult for them to access former lenders.

They then go informally, and it often makes things worse there, not only because the interest rates are high, but you can also get into the habit of relying more on that.

And therefore, the question is saying, What advice do we have? We're talking about national savings funds.

much yeah thank you so much for that question i think it's a very powerful question uh yeah

thank you doctor we're talking

thank you for reminding of that so we're talking about finances and i really think we've done such a beautiful show even i mean if i say so it myself how we've built it go man you go Why not? No one is going to pat us on the back if we don't.

Listeners, please tell us if we've done a good job.

But of really kind of taking week by week concepts that often our listeners have big questions on.

Yes.

Or they haven't connected the dots.

Yes.

Yes.

What are we talking about this evening? In fact, I've also

come across a few people at Gibbs who I teach.

Yeah, yeah.

And people say, yo, that conversation.

You must go and teach an MBA class there.

Exactly.

So it really was a good discussion.

there is.

about that.

Yes.

In fact, yes, for many people, especially, again, here, history teaches us that often individuals... who had such a bad experience, such as losing one's job, as an example, or a health scare, or a very sad story I read over the weekend of someone's car just started burning, and a BMW in Fort Lauderdale, and he didn't have insurance, right? And he was just crying on the side of the road.

And so... instances like this often drive people to say, yo, this should never happen again.

I need to have a little bit to tap into when a rainy day, when an emergence.

And by the way, this idea of a rainy day obviously comes from the concept of we check the weather.

These days, there's so many apps that helps you.

kinds of

have

one factor that is coming very strongly in research.

The idea of identity, right? And what do I mean by that? I'm sure our regular listeners, and very good evening to our listeners on all platforms, you know, they would wonder, what identity? What has it got to do with July savings month and savings in general? And I'm just going to introduce it as follows.

I've been doing a lot of reading around identity.

And what triggered it was how I found myself, and I don't know, maybe I might just be the odd one out, but I have a strong identity as a runner.

That's one of the identities that I have.

Of course, we've got multiple identities, right? I'm a parent, I'm a husband, I'm a brother, I'm a sibling, et cetera, et cetera.

money.

For me, that's very powerful.

That, yeah.

And it, it makes me think, I've been thinking a lot, uh, lately around exactly what you're talking about, bro, obviously, that I think we don't talk often these days, if I think about the olders' time, around the exactly ethics, you know, around character.

You and I have talked about the idea of being kind.

W- we kind of in a world that if yourself, you're not grounded, you probably find yourself more in the space of it's about career achievement, it's about money, it's about driving this, about, you know, kind of, uh, where my holiday, you know, all kind of those things.

So kind of to listen to a young person, for me, who is saying, "Part of my DNA, part of my character, part of my decision-making, I do actually reflect on ethical decision-making, whether it's finances or otherwise." It's, it's exactly what you were saying at the beginning.

It just gives you a sense if the future is bright.

... what is, what is your, what is your, what is your, uh, prescription for-

Good evening

to our wonderful listeners across all platforms.

And I just want to start by saying, Bro Ops, it's so interesting what you said about your dad.

So I was teaching today, finishing at about 5.30, and I was walking to the faculty area at Gibbs.

And I still can't explain why, but suddenly a thought occurred to me.

And it's also my late date.

He died in 2021.

Up to now, it makes sense how she was able to buy that independence for