Now, is that a flashpoint, and if so, what is its significance?

It is a flashpoint.

It's very significant because in many respects, it brings together all the things we've been discussing thus far.

What happened was on June 22nd, 1807, the USS Chesapeake left its home port in Norfolk, Virginia, bound for the Mediterranean.

And on board the Chesapeake were several deserters from the Royal Navy.

There were several Royal Navy ships on station off the coast of Virginia at that time.

It's one of the curious paradoxes of this period.

Can you tell us about what happened up in the Great Lakes on the Canadian border?

Yeah.

Um, on the other, there's a long-standing assumption that Canada, you know, as Jefferson said, is there for the marching.

It's not as crazy as we now think in the sense that there were about 80,000 settlers in Upper Canada, what's today mod- modern Ontario at this point.

Most, many of them were either American-born or descended from Americans.

[laughs] So they were either descendants of the Loyalists who fled after the American Revolution, or they were the so-called Late Loyalists, who were really opportunistic migrants who were attracted by generous land grants.

And there was a belief that just for the marching, Canada could become, uh, or Upper Canada at least could become part of the United States.

In 1810, the Americans acquired West Florida the same way, so it's not, th- there is a precedent at this very point.

Can you tell us what part they played in it and what the consequences of that were for them?

something about the title.

which is I suggested that title and one of the editors at the University of Virginia Press pushed back.

And it was inspired by the book that some of you guys might be familiar with, 1066 and all that, which is an irreverent take on British history, particularly English history from the 1930s.

And she said, look, nobody's going to get that reference.

And I said, well, it's interesting.

One of the points I tried to make in that short essay I wrote was What we see in Britain is they're able to make fun of their own history.

We have this foundational moment in 1776, and we're quite serious about this stuff.

And it's those two yoked together, I think, that mark America out as rather

That's what I want to hear.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, sure.

Go into that.

So I will.

I will.

Thank you.

I mean, look, when Jefferson wrote those words, and my students love to bring this up, he enslaved, he owned at least 200 people.

Right.

book.

So our argument is that one of Jefferson's most important legacies and the one we perhaps appreciate the least is his belief in what we call the importance of generational sovereignty.

And if you'll give me a minute, I'll explain that.

So clearly the Declaration of Independence is very important.

In fact, the three things he put on his tombstone that I mentioned earlier, the founding of the University of Virginia, the Virginia Statute for Religious Freedom, and the Declaration of Independence are hugely important.

And he knew what he was doing when he chose to put those on his tombstone.

But we argue he also had one of his important legacies is this belief in what he and we've called generational sovereignty.

Okay.

What's going on there at this revolutionary moment?

Yeah, thanks, Katie.

That's a really important question.

To some extent, it's the important question.

Believe it or not, the American Revolution was more than the founding fathers.

And I know you know that.

And I know that colleagues here at Montpelier know that.

So as we try to expand our understanding of his relationship with these key men, what does that look like at the time of the revolution and then beyond that?

Uh, is Jefferson's stock rising or falling? Or what's your read among this young generation, uh, in their attitude toward Jefferson?

Well, I don't wanna cast aspersions on young people, Talmage.

Um, [chuckles] I would say Jefferson's stock is very low with young people, and I totally understand that.

First of all, I teach in a non-US institution, so I teach in Scotland.

And Brits are very, very, uh, w- Their national sport is not football.

Their national sport is actually pointing out American hypocrisy as they see it.

[audience laughing] And, and they particularly enjoy this, this topic.

So explain how those two very different presidents, totally different political perspectives and orientations in virtually every respect, could be on the same page in terms of their praise for Jefferson.

So what are the options that the US is, is weighing up at this point?

The US is considering a number of things.

The president elected in 1896, the Republican president, was William McKinley.

His party was broadly committed to the expansion of the United States.

The United States had just completed essentially a centuries of expansion across the middle of North America.And McKinley and the people around McKinley, uh, were interested in acquiring Cu- if not acquiring Cuba, maintaining an interest in Cuba.

There were American investors in Cuba, uh, particularly in the sugar industry that Steve mentioned, and what they didn't want to see was a lot of disorder in Cuba.

So the, the, the rebellion in Cuba that began in 1895 was quite worrying to the McKinley administration.

Yes.

So what are the options that the US is, is weighing up at this point?

The US is considering a number of things.

The president elected in eighteen ninety-six, the Republican president, was William McKinley.

His party was broadly committed to the expansion of the United States.

The United States had just completed essentially a centuries of expansion across the middle of North America.

And McKinley and the people around McKinley, uh, were interested in acquiring Cu-- if not acquiring Cuba, maintaining an interest in Cuba.

There were American investors in Cuba, uh, particularly in the sugar industry that Steve mentioned, and what they didn't want to see was a lot of disorder in Cuba.

Yes.