as you were scaling you were pretty vocal that you weren't like building for a sale that was never the goal of what you were trying to accomplish but you've had i mean whether it was your shred consulting practice an exit there another exit to medtronic and then eventually a quite significant exit almost two billion dollar exit to boston scientific What does that process look like? Take us behind the scenes of those exits.

Yeah, so when you see most startup companies, they're not actually companies, they're projects.

They're not actually a full company.

They say, okay, we're going to develop a new camera.

So we're going to develop a new camera.

And they're not thinking about how are we going to manufacture the camera or how are we going to sell it.

They're just going to develop it and hopefully one of the big companies will buy them.

that pushed you into politics in 2015 or 2014 when you would have decided to run? What was it that made you decide then was the right

I guess, are there any reoccurring problems or patterns that you've noticed over time that kind of strike you?

Sure, sure.

For sure, there's something that I've noticed when you're talking about system changes.

And I would say two lessons I could share.

First lesson is, very few people can actually change.

So what happens is they're working away and then more work comes in and it gets piled on and piled on and they just, okay, I'm just going to knuckle under and do more and more and more.

And they never stop, put their head up and go, okay, I can't go on this way.

you encountered in your day-to-day life, and maybe it was just a moment in time, but maybe they helped you think a different way about something or led you to make a decision.