Like talk to me more about the different qualities of red light therapy and also like the effectiveness

of it.

Absolutely.

I think one point to make on that is when you're treating superficial tissue like your skin, it's a little bit easier to manage the dosing.

And the mathematics and the modeling that we have to do for that is simpler and more straightforward.

And so you see this for skincare products, for red light therapy more often.

And even the poor designed versions of those should give some level of reasonable outcome because it's just easier to dose that because it's more superficial.

there's a lot of runners listening to this there's common running injuries and we've previously talked about the knees but we we also see quite a few runners with plantar fasciitis or with hip issues in what sort of way can red

But how did you actually stumble upon EMD? Like, what were you doing at the time that got you interested? Was it a personal journey? Was it something that you yourself utilized to heal yourself from an injury? How did this come about?

yes i i did utilize it to uh to heal myself from a torn meniscus i had a torn meniscus when i was younger i was a competitive grappler and i i just had a bunch of old injuries and i looked up in my mid 30s and i had stopped i had stopped training almost and i was working a ton and just got unhealthy and like puffy and just i didn't feel myself i had been an athlete competitive athlete my entire life And you look up and it's, you know, it's all kind of going pear-shaped and flamed and all of this.

And so my mother, who kind of tracks different technologies early, typically I get to play the kind of, I guess, debunking role for most of these guys.

I've always spent a lot of time in the literature for whether it's diet or training protocols or different things like this.

I kept trying to debunk the red light therapy, but it was both working on me and the literature was great.

Basically, you know, when there's over 7000 studies on photobiomodulation now and the vast majority of them, we contribute to an international group that takes a bunch of the characteristics out of these, including kind of.

You know, the ratings for the journal and then the light characteristics and then, you know, how is this moving the needle for the outcomes and essentially try to kind of manufacture our own forest platform, like how these things are moving the needle in general and then kind of making assumptions around dosing based on that.

And, you know, how he can think about it from a systemic versus a very localized issue.