Um, why is that, um, why is that distinction and being able to understand that so important for modern quality engineering?

I, I have a theory on this, and I'm sure-- So I have already had ar- arguments with people about this.

Uh, so- some people even might feel that if you step way too much into the developer space, you might lose something from your tester's perspective, which I don't think is the case.

I, I, I would say it's, it's quite the opposite.

I would say that stepping into developer space, like e- makes you even better, uh, in your testing field.

That's what I always felt.

And the reason why, I give like countless of arguments and examples on that in my, uh, in my past talks.

Yeah.