How did you both start playing board games? 'Cause the title of this is Card Game Lovers to Board Game Designers.

Yeah.

I guess I can start because I think I started playing board games before Aki.

Like my, my, my day-to-day work is like, uh, I, I, I work on video games, and there's already like kind of a geek culture in that area, so it's kind of very easy for finding groups of people that you start, you know, just hanging out to play video games, and then kind of naturally kind of evolved into, "Hey, let's play some board games." I, I cannot really pinpoint when I started playing board games, like in that way, but, uh, but yeah, I, I, I got into that, uh, but never like as a main or like a very strong hobby.

I didn't hold many, that many board games myself.

I was mostly like, you know, this kind of person that plays board games of other people, and I then I, I got like a couple that I really liked that were like, uh, Battlestar Galactica and-

So we wanted to also started to build our own legacy in our own terms.

Yeah.