So how similar do you think? that would be to soccer's traditional powers between these underdogs and the incumbents.

I think most activities are some combination of skill and luck.

Certainly over a short period, like a World Cup tournament, one game knockout here and there, there's all kinds of things that can happen that wouldn't happen if you played that same game a hundred different times, essentially.

But because you have a kind of like luck can play out over short periods.

You could have these kind of underdogs kind of go deeper than you think.

And from an investment perspective too, you mentioned it about being defensive.

Once you have something very large to protect, a big business, you inherently just kind of go back to the sort of the safe companies, et cetera.

How do you think about that?

But from an investing perspective, where do you think people actually, that's a mistake for investors to just carbon copy what these greats have done in the past?

Yeah, I think that analogy is good there.

I mean, ultimately, it's human endeavors, human condition.

Same kind of things apply to all different things that humans do.

And certainly, investing would be one of them.

I mean, certainly, I certainly started and got interested in investing by studying Warren Buffett and Charlie Munger and those greats.

And I think there's a lot to learn.

Yeah,

'Cause I think it's an important distinction is when you think of things like, I don't know, like a value trap or like a sunk cost fallacy is you've invested X amount of time already that you're so incentivized to do nothing, and that's a little bit of a different psychological way of thinking about it than making an active choice to not do something.

Oh, for sure.

Um, yeah, I think the, the, the whole distinction between, you know, being patient and then being stubborn and falling into a value strap, you know, it's a, it's a fine line.

[laughs] Certainly professionally I've, uh, I think any investor, and myself included, have, have fallen through that trap at, at times.

Um, so I think there is some, some ways to maybe overcome that.

Um, like there could be some automatic rules, uh, for example, that you could, um, eliminate these sort of like holding on because it's too cheap to sell kinda things.

I mean, one of the, uh, m- methods that we kinda classify ideas, certainly on the eq- equity side, is kind of, you know, close the de- discounts, uh, versus compounder, emerging compounders.

How do you sort of think about that distinction?