What would you include and what would you refuse to reduce to a number?

So, yeah, so I – when I was actually your age, when I was applying to colleges, I went to – I chose my college because there was an economist that was measuring everything.

He was a famous environmental economist that – showed that you could, you know, measure all the sort of inputs and outputs, you know, quantify all the externalities of, you know, environmentalism.

And it's still fascinating to me, but I quickly realized that he was sort of, the economics and that kind of, you know, effort to measure everything was kind of taking the life out of what drew people to, to, you know, these, these fields in a sense.

Um, and, um, so I actually, I do like a lot of the things you mentioned.

I think the walk, like walk score is actually really valuable because it's actually measuring places to go destinations.

you know you know we measure like holly white i was talking about measuring the suitable space in a city um you know measuring you know women children elderly is really key that more just more um vulnerable members of communities uh if they're there it makes everyone else feel more welcome in a space holly white found that he thought that a space that needs at least 60 percent women to it to show that it's a comfortable space for everybody Greenery is key.

So if I dropped you in a neighborhood that you had never seen and gave you one day to figure out whether people truly belong there, what would you look for? And is there one behavior you would trust more than any survey?

some of that is built on obviously this idea that, uh, the power of ten, but, but talk a little bit about where you are now in your journey and how that is, uh, continuing this legacy that, you know, you and your family represent.

Um, yeah.

So, you know, we were lucky to, lucky to work at Project for Public Spaces for, uh, you know, more than twenty years from the, from the mid-nineties.

Actually, it was Campus Martius being one of the first projects I got to work on.

Uh, my father founded that organization in nineteen seventy-five, um, to put into practice the work of Jane Jacobs and William Whyte.

Um, who were, who were really, you know, turning around downtowns.

You know, the seventies in the US was a time when, you know, disinvestment in downtowns was a real crisis.

... decades, but coming back to Detroit, what, what made you most proud? What made you most excited for, uh, the city and, and, and, you know, what ultimately that foundation has grown into?

some of that is built on obviously this idea that, uh, the power of ten, but, but talk a little bit about where you are now in your journey and how that is, uh, continuing this legacy that, you know, you and your family represent.

Um, yeah.

So, you know, we were lucky to, lucky to work at Project for Public Spaces for, uh, you know, more than twenty years from the, from the mid-nineties with...

Actually, it was Campus Martius being one of the first projects I got to work on.

Uh, my father founded that organization in nineteen seventy-five, um, to put into practice the work of Jane Jacobs and William Whyte, um, who were, who were really, you know, turning around downtowns.

You know, the seventies in the US was a time when, you know, disinvestment in downtowns was a real crisis.

And, um, you know, we showed that leading with, with public space investments and inviting everybody in, um, not just designing out of fear of who was in downtowns, um, uh, was, was a proactive and positive approach and really led to the, you know, in some ways, the, the revitalization of downtowns across the country.

But coming back to Detroit, what, what made you most proud? What made you most excited for, uh, the city and, and, and, you know, what ultimately that foundation has grown into?

Does that make sense or how would you maybe articulate the difference in making it more livable as a commodity to attract folks versus something else that we're aiming for? Maybe what is that something else that we're aiming for?

Yeah, the market is strong, and we have to work with the markets for sure.

And in some ways, these suburban areas, we've been surprised.

We were kind of snobby.

Being a New Yorker, we're like, we're sort of snobby about the suburbs a lot.

But actually, there's more pent-up demand for good places in the suburbs.

So when you do create something, there's a need for it.

And like one of the questions they're basically looking at is like, what makes people love where they live? Uh, and some, um, and in all of your experiences, like, I'm curious that some of your observations on like, what are the kinds of things, whether expected or unexpected that like, that helped us spark a sense of, I love my place at a, at a deeper kind of level.