How do you help your clients find that balance of being involved with their teams enough to understand what their teams are experiencing, being transparent enough of what they're doing to help the teams so that the teams understand what their bosses are doing, contributing to the business without overloading either side

um i kind of go when i start to look at it i really kind of emphasize there's two hours a week we can find two hours a week it doesn't have to be a consecutive two hours it can be broken up in different parts of the week in different parts of the day and different things but you need to spend two hours in your work week with your team.

I'm going to sit beside Sally at Sally's desk.

Sally, I want you to show me what the biggest problem you have in your workday is and walk me through it and show it to me.

And so Sally pulls up her computer, whatever it is she does, and she starts to show you that thing.

And so we're building these conversations.

And you can say, yeah, we're working on a plan to settle some of the problems that we see, right? So now you're giving little tidbits.

How do you suggest that we take the first step towards getting more comfortable with that?