And I see this play as really tapping into that, and I think it's evident that you're kind of, yeah, as I say, you're seeing this bifurcation between an onshore and an offshore market play.

Yeah, I, I don't know that I agree with all of those statements.

I, I think that I've generally rejected the access as being all that interesting.

Like that was clearly the benefit of a stablecoin.

Zero friction access to US dollar has incredible reach and, and demand.

Equities are largely available to anybody with an investment account just about anywhere on earth, whether that's the underlying, a CFD.

You know, I-- it's not hard to get access to US equities, but I think it's a necessary first step.

Like, what advice would, would you give of like, how do you build a stable coin ecosystem in the UK, and like, is this the right policy approach towards that?

You know, there's certainly... very big opinions flying around and I know you'll have one and love to hear how that competitive landscape is right

now.

Maybe I'll start with the one thing that you said that I agree with the most and it's kind of lost most often is that it's definitely not a zero-sum game.

Every chain is really good at something which is often their reason to exist and often is built around their unique features or however they chose to iterate over the versions that have come before them.

And you know, whether that's an incentive model difference or a technical model difference or an ecosystem difference or a foundation focus difference.

You know, if you go into any one of these ecosystems, you'll find something there that they're very, very good at.

And so these often are, they are quite complimentary.

What's the organization and like, how do you set it up? Um, so that you can dominate in the capital markets with the opportunity, if you just talk us through the kind of scale and scale and how the team is distributed.

Some grew, some fell

apart, some new entered into the ecosystem.

Some markets were more challenged than others in different ways.

So it left a mark, but it didn't, I would say, completely reorient who the winners and the key players were.

And we thought, OK, if that is going to happen on a financial level, then we know that there is a key role for at least the roles in the incumbency zone.

And we need to make sure that the tech is fit for purpose for providing the right outcomes for those institutions.

So we started first with working with the most demanding institutions in the world.

people

So they become a capital markets participant and a major capital markets participant.

That's right.

A major one is really what I think has started to tip the scales here is that the scale of Coinbase and Circle and Tether and the large institutional traders is not something you can ignore if you're in a capital markets context, especially as they expand beyond just maybe putting cash in the bank and into treasuries and into repo and into lending.

I mean, look at what Apollo is doing with their on-chain credit fund and then what Gauntlet's done that by levering it.

Increasingly, Bitcoin is the next entrant into high quality liquid assets, joining things like treasuries and money market funds.

And as a whole ecosystem of capital markets like DeFi gets built around that, that is expanding and pulling in those institutional participants into that ecosystem.

It was retail that led the charge, but I do believe that the next wave is overwhelmingly institutional and something that looks extremely trad-fi.

Just kind of unpack what that really means.