Yeah.

And, and part of my thought with even that is, like, we wanna know, people wanna know that we've been around for a long time, so we don't disappointment, disappoint them.

So we can avoid, we can mitigate that possibility, which I think that is really key to what we're talking about is how do we mitigate the possibility of disappointment? How do we, how do we, um, live proactively? How do we not react when that client after, you know, you're gonna deliver in 90 days and the client is getting their first email from you at 84 days or 87 days, and it's gonna be that you're delayed.

So what can you do in the beginning to e- manage their expectations and to help them know what to expect from you? That is expectations.

Same thing.

So I've had people where they're disappointed in the past, and I think for a long time I didn't sleep at night because I was, I was waiting for them to email me out of frustration, or I would get up in the middle of the night and check my phone and have a cranky email from 10:30 right after I went to bed, and I'd see it at 3:00 a.m.

It's a real thing.

Well, I think that that leads to how are we supposed to communicate with p- with, with people? How are we supposed to talk with planners? How do we...

Then you said, how can I teach financial modeling as a competitive game, kind of an e-sports framework? So how did you first come up with that idea? How did you develop that idea?

So, well, first of all, I can't take credit for the whole financial modeling in esports.

So there are many greats that did that well before me, specifically Andrew and David and that lineage.

But I did focus really clearly on the FMI stuff.

So that was, in some sense, it was new because it was a different set of material.

But But yeah, so, I mean, I already recognize it.

Just watching my students compete in more kind of generic cases that really didn't have anything to do with finance or more just general problem solving.

But it's really, in many ways, it, it wasn't that hard because

W- so talk about what it's like coaching students, 'cause obviously coaching versus doing it yourself is very different.

Very different.

Very different.

Um, so, uh, uh, certainly there, there, there's techniques and, and, and skills that they need to learn, but there's- There's an interesting twist to the coaching part that, that comes from the fact that...

So, so these students, the students that I work with and the students that are, are, are into this stuff, they're typically gonna be high achievers, also highly competitive individuals themselves.

But that brings this dynamic where you've got, you've got students who are very accustomed to, in all their academic career, studying very hard, regularly earning As, oftentimes attaining perfect scores or near perfect scores on their exams, and then just kind of keep on going.

They, they, they just expect, they, they expect excellence.

So you started saying, "Hey, let's do some of these esports," then you said, "How can I teach financial modeling as a competitive game, kind of an esports framework?" So how did you first come up with that idea? How did you develop that idea?