end on.

Yeah, it's really easy to point to all of the constraints and limitations in the public sector, but somehow some people do some amazing work.

within those and are creative in how they work with and against the limitations of those institutions.

So I think there's a couple of different strategies.

Sometimes there's an opportunity for people to co-design by stealth and go under the radar and just do really good work and include more people and not make a big song and dance and not advertise, not even label it as co-design.

Just work in really inclusive and creative and participative ways and find ways that they're allowed to, for instance, remunerate people with lived experience.

Sometimes people need to create the policies and there's amazing people who work within bureaucracies to create the space and structure to support this work.

What are your thoughts on Australia as the land of the fair goer?