Okay.

But I understand where he's coming from.

I mean, it was a really hard struggle this season, just the dynamics between us and, you know, everything going on with Luke and children and everything.

And so I think we were just doing the best we could.

And, you know...

I don't know how to explain it other than we've been married almost 18 years and we have a lot going on and we're just doing the best we can.

And I really, I really try not to get upset about things that he says because I don't want to bring it into our relationship again because it was obviously said earlier.

Hi, what kind of guy do you think Shannon needs in her life? And do you think she has a sneakier sex life than she lets on? Oh,

Or you're lying, or, yeah, yeah.

Or you're...

Yeah.

So it's like I can't even, you know, listen to any of that.

I just feel like it's important to just be authentic about my life and my marriage and my relationship with Shane and my kids and parenting because that's what I'm doing.

We're on a reality show.

It's supposed to be, it's about my life, and so I've always been real about what I'm going through, what I think, what I feel.

Yes.

Yeah

... and deep, dark secrets.

I know more, more about her.

She knows more about me than anybody else.

And I have never shared anything that was out of line that she asked me not to or that I knew immediately, like, that's not something that needs to be shared.

This was, like, a petty Dior clutch and a vibrator.

And I also kind of felt like Carmella, I mean, she was new to the group, so I felt like maybe she just kind of needed a heads-up as to, like, what everybody was saying so she wasn't blindsided by it.

Yes.

Yeah.

Like, he knew that.

And so, um, I don't think he was, like, super happy about it, but he also is very authentic on camera, like I am, so I think he's just, he just knows that whatever I was feeling or whatever is, it just is what it is.

Yeah

... like a long term, like, been together a long time.

I think the shifting dynamic of just, like, Shane not working and being, like, full time with the kids is a lot on him, and then I think the way maybe he dealt with it was just by...

I just felt like he was, like, snarky with me all the time.

Nobody

... is actually bothered by it.

I think Heather is very good at, when she explains something, she's very persuasive.

So I think when she has a conversation with other people, she Jedi mind tricks them into thinking that they have a problem with it.

Um, my question is, do you think Vicki had a right to feel suspicious of Carmella? And how is their relationship today?

[laughs] I think Vicki has a right to feel suspicious about someone new, and to question things.

But I think that you have to, once you get your answers, you have to let it go.

But that's the thing about Vicki.

Right.

And so maybe that seems like the obsession.

But to me it's not, like, obsessed.

It's like a constant, like, what's going on? I'm trying to figure out things.

And I think also the...

I, I, and I give Jen credit too.

I know a lot of people were like, "Oh, she's just starting drama with the whole Heather thing," but she was legitimately confused about why Heather would say so many things about Tamra over here and then be a different way towards her.

Do you think Heather is fake?

So Mackenzie says she blacked out before the crash.

But when we talk about the medical condition, I feel like it doesn't take a medical expert or a doctor to think if she did have some type of medical episode where she did pass out or blacked out, wouldn't your hands, your body, it would've gone relaxed.

The fact that the car was 100 miles per hour, her foot never came off the gas, to me it means that she had to grip tightly to keep that car going 100 miles an hour straight into a wall.

What are they intended for?

Well, the point is that someone that commits a violent crime, so, you know, rape, murder, doesn't then get to benefit from that crime by receiving profits from writing a book and publishing and doing interviews and things like that.

I believe it was written in the '70s, so it, it has not progressed to this digital age where people are able to profit from, you know, having a social media presence.

And so I know that Christine Russo and the Flanagan family were working to change that, so we're gonna follow that and see what happens.

So Mackenzie says she blacked out before the crash.

But when we talk about the medical condition, I feel like it doesn't take a medical expert or a doctor to think if she did have some type of medical episode where she did pass out or blacked out, wouldn't your hands, your body, it would've gone relaxed.

The fact that the car was 100 miles per hour, her foot never came off the gas, to me it means that she had to grip tightly to keep that car going 100 miles an hour straight into a wall.

What are they intended for?

Well, the point is that someone that commits a violent crime, so, you know, rape, murder, doesn't then get to benefit from that crime by receiving profits from writing a book and publishing and doing interviews and things like that.

I believe it was written in the '70s, so it, it has not progressed to this digital age where people are able to profit from, you know, having a social media presence.

And so I know that Christine Russo and the Flanagan family were working to change that, so we're gonna follow that and see what happens.

Um, all right, so what kind of law did you practice?

Um, you know I did family law for a while and then, um, once Shane and I were married and we had kids, I did copyright.

And then, uh, in 2018, that's when I joined season 13 of Real Housewives, and I actually did practice the first two years I was on the show.

I practiced part of time and filmed the show and it became very, very difficult for me to continue to do that, so then I just kind of segued out of practicing into reality TV.

And then, um, during COVID, I didn't know what was going on with my life or TV or anything at that point, so that's when I reached out to the Innocence Project and just asked if I could be a part of it, if I could volunteer, how could I help, what could I do? Which helps with that need to have that legal tie even though I don't practice anymore, and also, the podcast kind of gives me that nerdy element that I'm missing.

With information as well?

I do.

I'll tell you, Karen Read was not initially on my radar.

Uh, but tell me a little bit about your experience.

I went to a very big university, and Greek life was kind of, like, relatively big.

I mean, definitely can't compare anything to, like, the South or the Midwest, but we had a lot of houses on the row.

It was, like, one straight shot of all sorority houses.

And we basically, like, every house mom besides ours was, like, I don't know, 65 years old.

Um, and our house mom was a ripe 25 years old.

So she-

Right