How do you see that paradox of the consumer wanting something but not be willing to go the extra mile to enable it? And what impact do you think that will have on companies and the regulator in that context?

I would maybe want to start with, you mentioned sustainable choices and here I see here, we do have a small problem already because sustainability can mean totally different things for each of us.

And often it's built on a value based.

So we can talk about the sustainable product, but totally emphasize the different aspects of the problem.

So one thing I see is that we have a terminology problem when we talk about sustainability.

What does that actually mean? I know that you have defined it and also ISO has defined it and everything, but what does it actually mean to you? each person and what is it? But yeah, this is something that I think a lot about.

So I just wanted to bring it here also.

How do you think we can align these different elements, the consumer perspective, but also the producer side and the regulatory side, so that they move in lockstep? And they basically feed off each other, enable each other instead of going into random directions and worst case, negatively influencing each other.