Um, so f- from your point of view, uh, what, do, do, do you have an appreciation for what patients are able to accommodate? What, what will a patient do to take part in a trial, and where will it be too much for them?

them?You know, it's, it's hard, it's hard to answer that from, you know, just one patient perspective myself, and of course it varies very widely based on the, the community and, you know, the, the burden of the condition itself and how much it would take for a patient to, you know, ha- be a participant in the trial on top of the management of their care on a day-to-day basis.

Um, but, you know, I would say that when it comes to, you know, f- for example, with patients that have m- mobility problems or pediatric populations where you need, where that person needs a caregiver to assist them in, you know, getting dressed, getting into a wheelchair, getting out of the home, getting to a clinical site, you know, all, every, basically every step of the way there needs to be somebody present, um, and supporting that participant and that patient.

Um, these can be, you know, these are very high, uh, burdens to, you know, accommodate in order to participate in a trial that's going to require, you know, in-person visits multiple, you know, once or twice a week even, for any given length of time.

Um, and so I really, you know, strongly advocate for how to make trials provide the optionality for each participant.

And even within, you know, even within the same disease area, um, and, and within the same trial, there can be a wide, uh, range of, um, a patient's ability to either travel to a site or to, you know, perform any given procedures or tests.

Um, and there can be some patients that prefer to, you know, go into a site or versus have at home care where they can be monitored and get, you know, data that's collected seamlessly.

Uh, but from your point of view and your experience working with the industry, uh, how would you qualify meaningful patient involvement in trial design?