Is that also how you see state capture?

Yeah, so that was a really important distinction that they introduced, and they were essentially observing this phenomenon quite a lot, particularly in Russia, Ukraine, other parts of the former Soviet Union, in those kind of early years of the post-communist transition.And so something that they associated with oligarchs, so these sort of few powerful business interests who would get in, um, and manage to, to change the, the policy in ways that then gave them long-term advantages.

Um, so that was a really important distinction.

I still recognize that as ve- very much a part of state capture, that influencing the, the policy formation process.

But what we've seen, I think, in the last 15 to 20 years is that often the capture will be led by political groups.

So we've talked about political parties or, you know, a particular individual and a few people around that individual.

And what we see when it's led by the politicians is that it can expand out into a couple of other areas.

What are they? What are these SDNs?