And I'm thinking about, you know, Alana, if you could spell out for us even just like a little bit more explicitly how you make this connection between like client retention and like good leadership in therapy.

Yeah, and I love the word leadership because I don't actually particularly think client retention is the term that needs to be circulating in therapists' minds as they meet with their clients.

I think it's important to think, though, about the professional role and even obligation of being a therapist.

As a profession, we're here to help people with painful problems that they haven't otherwise been able to address on their own.

So we're a professional, much like a physiotherapist is somebody who you would see if you were dealing with an injury.

We're dealing with people who have a range of painful struggles.

mental health struggles, relational struggles, life adjustment struggles.

to see a

Correct?

Yeah.

So one of the most important levers is how many sessions has the client attended.

And so what the research tells us is if we're-- if what we're looking for is, is an outcome, which I think therapists of all stripes can agree that we want outcomes.

We want our clients to get what they came for in therapy.

We want them to stop suffering in the way that they are.

And so what the research tells us is that a minimum of eight sessions, and personally, I find that very conservative, um, but that a minimum of eight sessions is required to attain The, the changes that are more sustainable, that are gonna actually show up in a meaningful way in the client's life.

I'm curious, from your experience, why do group practice owners feel so uncomfortable having conversations around, like, retention with their team members?